Amplified CEO - Chris Capone

Amplified CEO - Chris Capone

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur Richard Stroupe.

[00:00:11] Richard:So I have to say, the podcast that we did a few months ago- Mm-hmm ... um, really kind of like got me more interested in doing more guest speaking on podcasts, 'cause I love being on this side of the table. Yeah. I, I think we talked about, like I hate talking about myself, but- Yes

[00:00:26] I love talking about other people and learning about their businesses and their backgrounds and what made them successful and, you know, what are they working on today. Uh, obviously their thoughts on technology and trends, but um, but your podcast was great. And of course, I've been watching more of your podcasts.

[00:00:42] Chris: Well, thank you.

[00:00:43] Richard: But how did you get into it? Like what, what, what prompted you to kinda start your own podcast series and, and, and invite some of the, the folks that you have on your show?

[00:00:53] Chris: It's, I mean, it's definitely a silly, silly story, but I was listening to a lot of podcasts, and specifically I was listening to Joe Rogan a lot.

[00:01:02] Richard: Yeah, he's great. Yeah.

[00:01:03] Chris: And w- what it came down to, I was like, "Joe learns something every day." You know, he's always talking to somebody different. He's doing a deep dive into things that are interesting to him. Mm-hmm. And he gets to learn stuff and meet cool people. And so f- I don't know why, I was like, "Man, it would just be really neat to be able to do something like that."

[00:01:24] Mm. And this was right as I was transitioning and starting Capone & Associates. And then someone just kinda said, "Chris, you should, you should really do a podcast, and I've got a studio and a production team, and like let's give it a shot." And so I started about three years ago, um, and turns out it's actually a great thing for marketing as well, you know?

[00:01:45] Yes. And networking. Yeah. And so, you know, I get to interview a bunch... And, and, and the thing that I deep dive on with everybody is generally around leadership- Mm ... and like community development and community impact- Mm ... and just showcasing people here local in Wilmington. Mm-hmm. And so I talk to people that are, you know, work for nonprofits or work in, you know, you know, municipal roles or other founders and CEOs- Mm-hmm

[00:02:07] and, and leaders, so.

[00:02:09] Richard: Yeah. No, it's, it's interesting to have those type of conversations- Yeah ... even for your own self. 'Cause like somebody asked me, he's like, "Oh, are you making any money on your podcast?" I'm like, "No." But for me it's more than that. It's, it's, it's having conversations, recording it digitally. I can go back and listen to it myself.

[00:02:25] Yeah. It's like, oh man, that discussion was so cool. I wanna go back and listen to it again. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Kind of an archive of, uh, you know, cool people and cool, cool conversations.

[00:02:35] Chris: Yeah. Um- And I've, now I've done 62 episodes. Oh, wow. So I mean- Yeah ... you know, that's 62 people that- Right ... I've got to sit down with and get to know them- Yeah

[00:02:44] more as a person, but also hear their story. Mm-hmm. And, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been really fun.

[00:02:49] Richard: I think at some point in the future, the way AI is, is moving, that the content that we're recording could be used for other things in the future. Mm-hmm. We just don't know yet. Yeah. Um- That's a good point. But I know Chris and I talk about it a lot, like, "Wow, you know, all this content that we're generating."

[00:03:05] Mm-hmm. You know, it could, you know, become some LLM and it could be used for business lessons learned and, you know, best practices and conversations about Wilmington. You just- Yeah ... you just never know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. So what, what, um... How do you book your guests? Like, do you go through an agency to kinda, like, scout and recruit people?

[00:03:28] Or how do you, how do you go through that process?

[00:03:30] Chris: Um, it's all just been within my network- Mm ... like, and very organic. Like, you know, I, for you as, for example, like, being involved with the Network for Entrepreneurs in Wilmington- Mm ... you know, and Jim Roberts, and I've been to a couple events, and you were one of the, um, one of the guest speakers at one of the deep dives, like, a year or two ago.

[00:03:49] Oh. Yeah, that... Yeah, yeah. I remember that one. At the CIE. Yeah. And I mean, that's pretty much how I book everybody is, like- Got it ... it's someone that I'll interact with in daily life- Mm ... or see, you know, and wanna be able to interact with them. Yeah. And I'll just- That you find interesting ... yeah. Yeah. And I'll just reach out and say, "Hey, I've, you know, here's, here's who I am, you know, here's what I'm doing, and, you know, would love to interview you."

[00:04:09] Yeah. Most people I've, I kinda already have some type of relationship with, so it's not like I'm completely cold calling or- Mm ... you know. But yeah, it's just, you know, people that I kinda know or know of already- Mm-hmm ... in the community.

[00:04:23] Richard: Yeah. I know we, we were talking before we started recording, but um, I know you enjoy doing the interviewing on your podcast, but how many guest spots, have you been on other podcasts?

[00:04:33] Yeah. Is that something you're more interested in as well, or?

[00:04:35] Chris: Well, you know, coming in here I was like, man, it's kinda nice to be on this side of the table- ... 'cause I can just relax and, and just roll with it. I've been on two other podcasts. Um, one, uh, was with, um, with, um, Leith HR Group. They've got one called HR Nightmares.

[00:04:52] Mm-hmm. And I was talking with, um, Andy and Lisa. I was like, "Man, you know, you, you should get a finance guy on there," because in a lot of small businesses that don't have HR- Mm-hmm ... like, HR just falls onto finance. Right. And so I could probably, uh, sympathize or empathize and tell you some funny stories. So they had me on, which was really nice.

[00:05:11] Richard: That's great.

[00:05:11] Chris: It was really nice of 'em. And then I did one virtually just, like, right when I was starting my business, and that didn't really get anywhere.

[00:05:18] Richard: Yeah. It's a better experience when you're here together.

[00:05:21] Chris: 100%. Yeah. 100%.

[00:05:22] Richard: Yeah. Yeah. So what podcasts do you like to listen to?

[00:05:25] Chris: So I've been going pretty deep on Lex Fridman- Oh, he's great

[00:05:29] recently. Yeah. A lot on the AI stuff. Yeah. And specifically, um, anything that Jensen Huang is on, the- Mm ... NVIDIA CEO. Yeah. I'd... Any podcast he's on I'd listen to, 'cause he's just, um, acquired- I don't know if you've heard- Oh, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm ... yeah, the Acquired stories- Yeah ... are, are so cool. They...

[00:05:48] Richard: yeah, the way, the way they frame it and how they discuss, yeah, it's really nice.

[00:05:52] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:52] Chris: So, like Acquired, and then obviously I mentioned Joe Rogan. Those are, like the three main ones that I listen to, and then people- Mm-hmm ... will, like, you know, send me some stuff here and there. Mm-hmm. Um, I've been listening to a q- a couple of years, getting r- you know, of the Elevate. Oh, really? Yeah.

[00:06:05] Okay. Trying to get ready. Cool. But what's funny is I don't really... I d- I have to kind of force myself to listen to my own podcast. I know. Mm-hmm. 'Cause it's, uh, it's weird to hear yourself talk- Totally ... and you're like, "Man, you sound like a fool." Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I tell myself- Mm ... it's like, if, if you wanna get better, you've gotta, you know, listen and tr- give yourself some constructive criticism and like- Right

[00:06:29] figure out how to be a little bit better, so.

[00:06:32] Richard: Yeah. I'm, I'm exactly the same. Yeah. Every time I listen to a podcast, I sound goofy. Like, when I, when I listen to myself, I'm like, "Oh, my God, you sound weird."

[00:06:41] Chris: Well, I, I think you sound really good 'cause when I re-listened to ours, I was like, "Dang, he killed it.

[00:06:45] This is awesome."

[00:06:46] Richard: Yeah, I listened to that one more. I, I liked how when, when you posted it, I went through the whole thing 'cause, um, if you remember, like, that was the very first one I was a guest on, and-

[00:06:56] Chris: I didn't realize that.

[00:06:57] Richard: Yeah. Well, ac- uh, I'm, I'm sorry. Christa's podcast. Yes. The, the one that we talked about some of the things I did here- Yeah

[00:07:04] and that, but, but, like, o- one that really kind of focused my background, you know, and some of the engineering stuff. Um, it's hard to talk about. Yeah. It's hard to articulate. And, uh, you know, obviously there's, there's some things you can say, and there's some things that you really don't wanna say, uh, but you'd like to.

[00:07:23] But- Yeah. ... you have to be careful in, uh, in how you say it. But, um, but, uh-

[00:07:28] Chris: Well, I mean, your story and your background and, you know, it, remembering back, like, I think the thing- That was, like, really cool for you to talk about was after you exited your first, you know, business, like what you go through as a person and, like, having your identity tied to being this entrepreneur and this business owner, and then it goes away.

[00:07:47] Like, that's not something that you learn in a textbook. Right. That's not something... You know, like, that's just real-life experience. I appreciate you- Yeah ... opening up and- No, I appreciate that ... talking about that.

[00:07:56] Richard: Yeah, the- That was cool ... we talked about what? Imposter syndrome and- Yeah ... how that comes out of nowhere.

[00:08:01] Yeah. And, you know, of course I, I wrote a post on LinkedIn recently about it. I saw, I saw it, yeah. And, and, you know, some people are like, "Oh, great. It must be a good problem to have." You know? I'm like, "Well, yeah, but it's, it's, it's different because different people handle situations differently." Mm-hmm. And, and you just don't know until you get into it, and, and it can be very disruptive- Yep

[00:08:21] to your, your mental health and, and your outlook on, on what you wanna do next. Exactly. Yeah. So, but, but luckily we have outlets like this and opportunities to have cool discussions and- Yeah ... and, and with like-minded individuals, so.

[00:08:34] Chris: Yeah, definitely.

[00:08:35] Richard: So tell me, uh, I know you graduated from UNC Wilmington.

[00:08:38] Mm-hmm. And you got your Bachelor's and Master's in Accounting. That's right. Which by the way, props to you, right? I took some accounting classes in college. I'm like, whoa. Um, yeah, it's good stuff. Thank you. But, um, but you started out doing consulting after graduation, right?

[00:08:55] Chris: Um, consulting would be a, a nicer way or a-

[00:08:58] more fun way. I was an auditor. Okay. So I was-

[00:09:01] Richard: You're one of those guys.

[00:09:02] Chris: Yeah, I was an auditor for, um, you know, financial statement audits, like, you know, auditing a publicly traded company so that they, you know, can release their financials. And- Mm-hmm ... so that's where I started, was with Deloitte as in the audit group.

[00:09:16] Richard: Got it. Okay.

[00:09:17] Chris: And, um-

[00:09:18] Richard: How did you land that job? Was that, were you recruited at UNC Wilmington? Or- Man,

[00:09:21] Chris: it was. Yeah. And I, so when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I remember... So my dad has always been in sales. He was a sales executive. Mm-hmm. And when I was going to college and trying to figure out what I should study, he was like, "Christopher, you should st- study finance or accounting because generally speaking, the guys that are leading organizations, they have a pretty good handle on finances and numbers," right?

[00:09:46] Richard: Right.

[00:09:47] Chris: You know, generally speaking, right? Mm-hmm. There's obviously some, um, situations where that's not the case, but... So I was like, "All right, cool." And you know, I was always good at math. I was good at science. I was not, like, artistic, although, you know, I could play some musical instruments, but, like, logic and reason is, is me, right?

[00:10:04] Mm-hmm. And so accounting, I took those accounting classes, and I was like, "This is..." Like, it was fun to say, like- Yeah ... you know? And I was good at it. And, um, and what was so great- So getting to the role with Deloitte is, UNCW has this program where, I mean, if you pretty much put in the work and go through the process- Mm-hmm

[00:10:25] when I was going through school, like you were guaranteed a job. So they, they had all the firms come to UNCW. Mm-hmm. So they had this, this program, and so, you know, it was meet the firms, and then after meet the firms, you know, you would, um, schedule interviews, and this was for an internship. Mm-hmm. So I graduated in three and a half years so that I could do an internship in my spring semester of my senior year.

[00:10:48] Wow. And so went and worked for Deloitte and got to see, like, a real busy season, January through mid-March. Oh, yeah, that's highest in, mm-hmm. And, and I was getting paid 25 bucks an hour plus overtime, so I was working these 70-hour weeks, and I was like, "Man, this is like... I'm, like, raking in some money," you know?

[00:11:04] Richard: Yeah.

[00:11:04] Chris: And also getting the experience. So did that, and then when I finished my internship, they offered me a full-time job. They said, "Go finish, get your master's, and then come work with us in a year and a half." I was like, "Man, this is awesome. I've got a job lined up already. I can go and, like, have fun at school and focus on the CPA exam."

[00:11:23] Mm-hmm. So I did the CPA exam while I was in grad school so that by the time I graduated, I was, you know, just ready to go to work and-

[00:11:31] Richard: That's fantastic. Yeah. It was, it was a really good path. Did they help offset some of the cost of your master's, or did you pay that?

[00:11:36] Chris: No, I paid that. Okay. But I was able to get...

[00:11:39] I had in-state tuition 'cause I was also- Right ... a, uh, a teaching... I also taught, um, uh, an accounting computer class. Mm-hmm. And so they were able... So, you know, my grad school tuition was probably the best bang for buck like- Mm ... you know, of... I mean, it's a one-year program. Right. It was under $10,000 at that point in time.

[00:12:01] Richard: Yeah, that's great.

[00:12:01] Chris: And graduated with a good job, so.

[00:12:04] Richard: That's fantastic. Yeah. Now, are you from North Carolina originally, or?

[00:12:07] Chris: No. I found Wilmington through UNCW. Okay. I was born in Washington, DC. Okay. In, in, like, in DC, but we lived, um, just outside of DC in Silver Spring, Maryland. Oh, yeah. Got it. Yeah. Silver Spring.

[00:12:21] S- similar, you know, you know that- Yeah, we talked about that ... area. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when I was seven, we moved to Northern California. Okay. And, um, I grew up in Northern California in the Bay Area from '96 to about 2004. Mm-hmm. And so it was there during, like, the dotcom. I was young, so I didn't really, like, understand- Right

[00:12:41] it all, but I was there during that time. Yeah. Which was, um, which was a pretty wild time in the Bay Area.

[00:12:47] Richard: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Lots of change and disruption and-

[00:12:49] Chris: my gosh ... technology leadership. Yep. Um- And then when I was 15, so I finished my freshman year in high school in California, we moved to b- back to Baltimore.

[00:13:01] Mm-hmm. And, um, did my last three years of high school in Baltimore and came to UNCW. Yeah. Is that where your family's from, Maryland area, or- Yes. Okay. Yeah, my, y- well, my, my mom's, they're from Ohio, Cleveland area. Okay. My dad was born in Philly, but he, he grew up in Baltimore County. Okay. Went to... So when we moved back to Baltimore, that was like going home for my dad.

[00:13:20] Got it. My grandparents lived there. He went to elementary, middle, high school there. So it was like- Yeah ... it was basically like going home- ... for him.

[00:13:26] Richard: Yeah, one of the, one of the best experiences I had, like going to a Major League Baseball game, is in Baltimore. Oh, yeah. Just, just being there. I mean- Came to the Orioles

[00:13:35] Fen- Fenway is great in Boston. It's a, a whole different experience, but- Yeah ... but, uh, the Baltimore Orioles stadium- Yeah ... is beautiful. Yep. Yeah, it's, it's awesome. Yeah.

[00:13:45] Chris: And when I was growing up, you know, I mean, like Cal Ripken and all that stuff, like the- Oh, yeah ... everybody knows, like, the Baltimore Orioles, you know, I think- Yeah, of course

[00:13:53] for the most part. Yeah. It's like one of those, it's like the Yankees and the Red Sox and the Orioles. Mm-hmm. Like, people know those teams. Yeah.

[00:13:59] Richard: Did you go to any sports games out in California when you were growing up, or...?

[00:14:02] Chris: We went to... I, I was able to go to a couple Raider games. Okay. And man, Oakland, California-

[00:14:09] like the blue collar, like- Yeah ... Oakland Raiders fans. Oh, man, I, s- just so much fun. A's games, Giants games. I went to the San Jose Sharks games, oh, like a couple of those. But yeah, mostly Oakland A's games. Okay. That w- 'cause, like, it was affordable. Yeah. And like, you know, there's 100 games, 100 games a year you could go to- Yeah

[00:14:31] you know. Yeah. So.

[00:14:33] Richard: We had a couple who attended our Elevate conference back in March- Mm-hmm ... from California. Okay. And they had a contract. They were working with the Oakland Raiders. No way. They were developing, like, um, these AV desk ef- effectively. They're l- they're like furniture, but they're for computer equipment, and they were, you know, the Raiders were recording, obviously, a lot of analytics and video- Wow

[00:14:57] on the field, so they'd have to have special equipment, and this company was based out there, and they built them racks and, um, so- 

[00:15:04] Chris: How'd they find you? 

[00:15:05] Richard: Through LinkedIn.

[00:15:06] Chris: No way.

[00:15:07] Richard: Yeah.

[00:15:07] Chris: That's awesome, man. 

[00:15:08] Richard: Yeah, yeah, through 

[00:15:09] LinkedIn, so we're-

[00:15:09] Chris: That's so cool

[00:15:10] Richard: Uh, it's been, it's been tough trying to recruit people to come here, North Carolina to- Yeah

[00:15:15] but it's like we have a little infrastructure. It's like it's cool and- Yeah ... it's good, good to meet folks like that. But yeah, they were talking about their relationship with, uh, the Raiders and the 49ers and, you know, how the Raiders moved to Vegas, and it kinda- Yes. Yeah ... kinda sucked for Oakland and all the fan base.

[00:15:31] Yeah. Yeah. Do you get back to California a lot or?

[00:15:33] Chris: My brother and sister live in San Diego. Okay. So we go out quite a bit, and that's a great place to go and visit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, San Diego's beautiful. And then it's nice to come back to, to Wilmington, you know? Like- Yeah. Yeah ... um, but, um, yeah, I, so I get to go out there and, you know, I was trying to figure out how to open a Capona & Associates office in San Diego-

[00:15:54] but, um, that's maybe in the 10-year plan. Yeah, yeah. Who knows? Yeah. We'll see. Absolutely.

[00:16:00] Richard: So, so transitioning from Deloitte, um, I know you did some international, uh, work as well. Yep. Um, that must have been interesting, you know, 'cause you have GAAP accounting here. Yeah. And some of the accounting standards are a little different- Yep

[00:16:15] overseas. Yep. Um, what countries did you visit, and what did, what'd you think of that experience?

[00:16:20] Chris: Man, it was hands down the best experience, like, of my... I mean, yeah, of my life. I mean, my wife and I got married on October 3rd, 2015, and we moved to Europe for three years on October 4th- Wow ... 2015, you know? It's like a- We didn't have-

[00:16:37] extended honeymoon. It's... She keeps asking me, she's like, "W- we never went on a honeymoon." I was like, "We lived in Europe for three years." Yeah, that was a honeymoon. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Um, so we lived in Zurich, Switzerland for seven months. Okay. And, uh, so I was working for a company called ABB, which is really big in industrial power and automation.

[00:16:58] Mm-hmm. And it's like, like a conglomerate. They make everything from robots to, like, light switches. Mm-hmm. You know, and they grew incred- like, they grew over the year through a lot of M&A stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, and so it was a really cool company because it was a lot about technology and the Internet of Things and, and, like, automation and plants, but then also, um, you know, they would have a...

[00:17:22] They would get contracted by, like, you know, a province in China to lay their, their grid system. Mm-hmm. You know, so it was just, like, really wild stuff, a highly engineering, like, background. Right. Like, most of the people in leadership were engineers- Mm-hmm ... um, at this company. And so I- Um, so I went to Zurich and I was working in the corporate controlling office in, like, the...

[00:17:46] They call it business intelligence and analytics. Mm-hmm. And so, um, it w- you know, wore a suit and tie to work every day. Like, it was my version of being on Wall Street. Yes. You know, like, I'm here in Zurich, Switzerland, you know, just going through, um, working, like, you know, in a corporate job. Mm-hmm. And my role was basically to support the consolidation and the analysis of all the financial information- Mm

[00:18:11] from, you know, product group to business unit to division to region. I mean, there was, like, a matrix reporting. You know, you've got the region, you've got the division, you got the business unit, the product group. So there's, like, a million ways you could slice and dice this information. Yeah. And, um, having my audit ba- So this was actually a step away from, like, being an auditor, and it was becoming into more of, like, what I would call, like, a, from accounting to a finance role- Mm

[00:18:38] where finance was a little bit more, you know, forward-looking, a little bit more focused on, you know, just, like, data analytics- Mm ... and trying to get data to the right decision makers. Mm-hmm. And, um, man, my background as a, as an accountant, as an auditor was, like, the best thing. Mm. I mean, I, you know, I remember my first day, they asked me to, like...

[00:19:01] I was, like, reviewing some work papers, and I, I was given the, you know, for the head of the group who reported to the CFO of the company- Mm ... the global CFO, and I gave him all these comments, and he's like, "Chris, this is really good." So I became, like, the de facto reviewer of presentations- Right ... you know, for, like, everybody in this group.

[00:19:19] Mm. Everything from, like, tying out numbers, "Hey, you know, this number on slide 15, that doesn't match the number on slide three." You know, I was doing, like, all my auditor stuff. Yeah. And they're like, "Oof, man, I'm glad you caught that," you know- Yeah ... 'cause that was going to the CFO. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so that's where I started.

[00:19:36] Yeah, that's great. And, um, did that, so I was there for seven months, and it was during the wintertime, so we got to go skiing in the Swiss Alps every weekend. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, from, uh, from, you know... So the experience, the, the culture persperience, experience, the professional experience, and then it came time for the next role.

[00:19:56] So I got in... I was in the global trainee program. So I specifically hired for this program where they, you start... So I started in Cary. I was there for six months, then to Zurich. Mm-hmm. And then you take a third rotation, and the whole thing is like, "Hey, we're gonna train you to be, you know, like, the next leadership group of the company."

[00:20:15] Mm-hmm. And I applaud that. I mean, it's the coolest program. And, um, but so it came time for my next assignment and, you know, you know, Germany, Italy, Singapore, you know, all, like, you know, these places that you, you know, every, you know, Americans dream of going to live. Right. And then this one opportunity came through the, um, was to go to Bulgaria.

[00:20:38] Okay. And I was like I went home and I was like, "Natalie, pull out the map." We gotta find out where Bulgaria is. Yeah. You know? Like, I knew- Yeah ... generally where it was- Yeah ... but I was like, "Okay, so it's like Romania's up there and Greece is below- Yeah ... and the Black Sea." I didn't know that. We ended up moving to Bulgaria.

[00:20:54] We were supposed to be there for a year, ended up staying a little over two years. Uh, was it Sofi? Sofia? Um, we were two and a half hours east of Sofia- Okay ... in a town called Sevlievo. Mm. Um, there were probably like 25 or 30,000 people that lived there. Mm-hmm. And ABB had a factory there that they had just opened up, and it was all part of like their, you know, cost out initiatives to go to- Mm

[00:21:17] a lower cost country to produce, you know, stuff that was historically manufactured in Switzerland. Right. So they had a new factory there, so I got to go and work in an actual manufacturing facility where I was like, you know, learning about lean management and Six Sigma and like operational, um, excellence, all while still doing like an accounting and finance- Mm-hmm

[00:21:39] kinda role. Yeah. And, uh, man, I could, I could talk for, you know, so many great stories and experiences from there.

[00:21:47] Richard: And how long you were in Bulgaria? 

[00:21:49] Chris: Two years.

[00:21:49] Richard: Two years?

[00:21:50] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:21:51] Richard: I have a friend from there. 

[00:21:53] Chris: Do you know where? Sofia?

[00:21:54] Richard: Uh, Sofia. Yeah, yeah. So I took this Harvard Business School executive ed program- Mm

[00:21:59] and, and his name was Kristoff. Yeah. Um, but he was from Bulgaria. How cool. And he'd always say, you know, "Richard, you should come to Bulgaria." Yes. "You'll have a good time." Yes. So like, you sound like Dracula. Yeah. That's the way he was talking. That's so funny. But he was such a cool dude.

[00:22:16] Chris: Yeah. Yeah. The, the... We really, really embraced the culture.

[00:22:21] Like, you know, we lived in the town in an apartment. Um, really tried to learn the language, and I did. Like, I can read- I can read and still speak quite a bit of Bulgarian. Mm-hmm. And man, I just, we made so many great friends, and the people there, they just appreciated us and really treated us as one of their own, and- Yeah

[00:22:41] I mean, just, it was so cool. 

[00:22:42] Richard: That's the thing about European culture. Um, I did some travel too, and when you go to some of these smaller towns, first off, they're very fascinated by America- Yes ... you know, and the culture of America. Yeah. And they always wanna know, like, "Tell me about this. What did you think about this?"

[00:22:58] Like, we were in Greece, I was in Greece, and, uh, it was, it must've been a year or two around when Bill Clinton went to, to Greece, and they shut down the capital when he was there for security pro- Yeah ... you know, for, but, but of course everybody knew about Bill Clinton, and the first thing they asked me was, uh, and they were speaking Greek, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:19] Yeah. And like, "What did she say?" Had a translator. He's like, "Oh, she wants to know what do you think about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky?" And I'm like, "What?" I was like, "What do you mean what do I think about it?" I mean, you know. Yeah. What, what do you want me to think about it? Yeah. It was kinda weird, you know?

[00:23:33] So it's like- So funny ... but they, they pick on stuff, and it's like- They just, you know, wanna talk about it, so. Yeah. But, but they're also very warm. Um, you know, small towns in Germany and Italy, and they'll, you know, bring you into their house- Yes ... and wanna cook you food. Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's so, so different- It is

[00:23:52] than what you have here. 

[00:23:53] Chris: Yeah. You know, so. And like you said, I mean, you know, people all over the world follow American politics- Yeah ... American sports. I mean, um, so yeah, I know exactly what you're saying- Yeah ... your experience. 

[00:24:08] Richard: Yeah. So American leadership goes a long way. I mean, we take it for granted here, but, like, one of the things, like, I promote young students to do is go international-

[00:24:18] and just for the exposure because yeah, there's some areas that are different, you know? But, but they, they kind of educate you in different ways than what you show here. And then there's also areas that make you appreciate what you have because I do think, like, we, we take a lot for granted here- Yeah ... and things that we have.

[00:24:37] And you go to other places around the world, and it's, it's a whole different ballgame. And- Seriously ... um, you know, it's like yeah, we have problems here, but they have different kind of problems . Yeah. It's like, "Where's my next meal gonna come from?" Yeah. Or, you know, "How can I survive on, you know, basically 500 bucks a month," you know- It's serious

[00:24:56] with inflation. Inflation's worldwide. Yeah. Every- everything's expensive, so, um, yeah, it's a different, different experience. 

[00:25:03] Chris: The town we lived in in Bulgaria, um, during the summer, like, you know, after... 'cause it would rain a lot during the spring. Mm-hmm. But towards the end of the summer, there would be, um, like, they would turn the water off, you know, and they would have to, like, control the water.

[00:25:17] And the people that lived there, generally they had some, like, storage and some tanks. But us, I mean, s- there were days where I wasn't able to take a shower or brush- Right ... or like, I had to use a water, buy a water bottle to brush my teeth. Right. And to flush the toilet had to, you know, pour water in the top.

[00:25:31] And it's like the little things like that, you know? Yeah. It was, you know, it was part of the experience, but it like- Yeah ... really makes you appreciate, like- Oh, yeah ... you know, our, our foundation 

[00:25:41] Richard: and what we have. And the, and the convenience we have here. And the convenience factor. You can go down the street and get, you know, Chipotle or- Exactly

[00:25:48] any kind of fast food on the spectrum, anything you want. Yep. And, and there's places they don't have that luxury. Yep. And it's like, "Oh, you just have to eat that." Yep. Like, "I don't want it." Yeah . Well, it's, you know, your only option. 

[00:25:59] Chris: Yeah. It's take it or leave it, man. 

[00:26:00] Richard: Starve. But, uh, that must've been a cool experience.

[00:26:05] Chris: It was, man, it was so cool. And it's one of those things also, like my wife and I, we still talk about it, like- Hmm ... I wouldn't say every day, but I mean, almost every day. We're s- you know, it's one of those things that we reflect on and talk about. Right. And, um, yeah, and it's- And, you know, we m- we come back, like, so y- for, like, we move back after three years and every, you know, and everybody's like...

[00:26:31] And we moved back to Wilmington. Mm-hmm. And everybody's like, "How was it?" And we're like, "It was awesome." Like, it's like, what more can you say, right? Yeah. It's like, "All right, let's sit down for, like, five hours, and, like, let me tell you about all this." Yeah. But it, it's one of those things- Yeah ... that, you know, y- y- y- you can't fully portray, like, the experiences and everything that we, um, got to, you know, be a part of- Mm-hmm

[00:26:54] you know, in a conversation, you know? Right. Um, which is kinda hard, but it's also kinda cool 'cause it's something special for just my wife and I, you know? Right. It's like we did it together. Yeah. 

[00:27:05] Richard: So- Did you take any trips while you were stationed in, uh, Bulgaria? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:27:09] Chris: Um, in Bulgaria we had a car.

[00:27:11] So in Switzerland- Mm ... we just relied on trains and all that. Right. That was amazing. But in Bulgaria, we actually had a car. Every weekend we were doing something, you know? And my fa- our favorite, we did this twice, is we took a week off and we did a road trip through the Balkans. So we went, one time we went Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Croatia, um, Montenegro- Mm

[00:27:36] um, and back through the former Yugoslav, uh, Republic of Macedonia. Yeah. You know, these are all countries that, like, you know, growing up I was like- Right ... "Where are these places?" Yeah. Um, that was real- I think that's probably, like, those road trips, you know, 'cause we'd just wake up each day and be like, "Where are we gonna go now?"

[00:27:54] Yeah. You know? 

[00:27:54] Richard: That must've been amazing. 

[00:27:55] Chris: Really cool. Yeah. And, you know, and then eating all the, like, the local food and, you know- Mm ... and, like, it just, you know, we would just go to a town and we'd just walk- Mm ... you know, for hours. Right. And, uh- That's great. Yeah, it was really cool. 

[00:28:08] Richard: So coming back to Wilmington, when did you decide to start your own company?

[00:28:12] Chris: So when I came back to Wilmington, I became the CFO for a privately owned, um, smaller business here in Wilmington. Okay. So I was the CFO from 2018 to 2022. And, um, so I'd had, like, a, like, a, a, a legit job for, you know, four years. Mm-hmm. And so I didn't start the business until 2022. Okay. So. 

[00:28:36] Richard: What prompted you?

[00:28:37] Like, what was the, the spark that said- 

[00:28:39] Chris: Yeah ... "You know what? I'm gonna try my own thing"? You know, like, going way back, growing up, I don't... My dad always said, he's like, "Man, I just, you know, uh, I'm always trying to figure out how I could, like, be, you know, my own boss or, like, have my own business." Yeah. And it was just, like, little things along the way and, and I think that kind of stuck in my head and, like, painted- Mm

[00:29:01] some type of picture of, man, it'd be really cool to, you know, start my own business or be a business owner. So I think that, you know, was always there. But- It got to the... So when I was with my previous employer, it was just kinda, like it was time for me to move on. The company had grown, I was growing, I wanted some different things.

[00:29:24] Mm. And, you know, still have a really good relationship with all the folks over there. Mm. But basically, you know, there were ob- d- obviously some things that frustrated me, and I think, you know, finally Natalie, my wife, she was like, "Chris, either shut up or do something about it" you know? Like, you can't, you can't keep, you know?

[00:29:40] No. And, um, so we talked and talked and, you know, I was like, well, I was like, "Man, I'm, you know, I'm good at accounting." Mm-hmm. You know? "I don't know what else I'm good at, so maybe I could just try being like a freelance CFO." Mm-hmm. And again, like we didn't have a kid yet. Like l- you know, we were... Life was pretty simple and we're like, "Hey, if it fails, then I'm a c- you know, I'm a CPA.

[00:30:03] Like, I'll just go get a job." Right. Like, you know? Mm-hmm. It was really nice knowing that like if whatever I wanted to try and do failed, like I was- Yeah ... pretty much guaranteed a job, you know- Absolutely ... anywhere. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just, you know, wanted to try doing something on my own. Mm-hmm. And, um, I, I had helped some friends who had small businesses, like with their QuickBooks in the past, and I think I charged them like two or 300 bucks a month or something.

[00:30:30] I was like, it's like, you know, take Natalie out for a nice dinner or something. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Um, but I was like, "This could be like a real, you know, business." And so when I left my previous company, I, I went out and just started like rebranding myself and just networking and, and going to UNCW. You know, I had somewhat of a network of people here- Mm

[00:30:53] already. And, um, just s- you know, s- started interviewing a lot of... Not interviewing, but like at these events I was talking to business owners and other people in the industry and they're like, "Man, you know, my, you know, my finances, my... They don't make sense," or you know, "I never get 'em on time," or both. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:13] And, you know, "And I can't afford to hire somebody," and this and that. And so basically I realized, I was like, "Whoa, there might be a little niche here where, you know, we could just be kinda like an outsourced accounting and fractional CFO department for these small businesses- Mm-hmm ... and just help 'em, you know, keep tabs on their finances."

[00:31:29] Yeah. And, um, that's, you know, that's kinda how it started. So it was like I wanna do something different. I'm good at accounting. I went out and just started talking with people and, you know, networking. Mm-hmm. And that was kinda like the market research, that was like, "Oh, like this could be something." Right.

[00:31:48] And so. Yeah. 

[00:31:50] Richard: So did you actually have a couple clients already committed before you transitioned to doing it full time? Because typically when somebody wants to start their own company- Yeah ... they're working full time, obviously, to pay their bills. Yep. And then kinda starting- Moonlighting a little bit.

[00:32:05] Yeah, moonlighting a little, especially professional service side. Yeah. And then eventually once you have enough clients, you can then Do it full time instead of a part-time kind of a side hustle- Yeah ... type moment. But, like, when you made that transition, um, did you have enough to sustain your, your quality of life?

[00:32:23] Chris: Well, the way I worked it out was with my previous employer, I went to the owner and I said, "Hey," you know, we... And we'd been talking for months and months and months. Like, he knew that, you know, we were very on the same page of like, you know, Chri- Chris is probably, you know, needs to go do something else.

[00:32:41] Right. And so I said, "Hey, I got, I got a, I got a proposal for you." 'Cause he's a, he's a deal guy, you know? And he like... Uh, basically I put together a proposal. I was like, "Hey, man, you're paying me this. How about you pay me half of that and I'll still generally do everything that I'm doing?" Mm-hmm. "But we've gotta hire my replacement, and part of what I'm gonna be doing for you is training your replacement."

[00:33:02] Got it. So I didn't necessarily have, like, several clients to sustain. I, you know, you know, utilized my, you know, current employer to say, "Hey, this is what I'm gonna go do. Like, h- what do you think about this?" Mm-hmm. So I had enough to pay the mortgage, you know- Yeah ... and, uh, you know, just, like, very basic quality-

[00:33:23] of life stuff. And, um, and I was like, "All right. Time to, now it's time to, like, really go get to work." Absolutely. So- 

[00:33:29] Richard: And you bootstrapped everything yourself. I did. You never sought outside capital. 

[00:33:33] Chris: Nope. No, I'm, uh- Okay. No need to. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, looking back on it, like, I just, I didn't even think about it.

[00:33:40] Like, I was like- I know. Yeah ... you know, like, it was just like, "Oh, I'm just gonna go do this," and- Yeah. 

[00:33:44] Richard: Well, professional service, 'cause, you know, venture capital, private equity, they love to buy companies with products- Exactly ... because of higher margins. And for pro serve companies, they have decent margins, but they're not as healthy or, or I would say they're not as profitable as product companies.

[00:33:59] Yep. Um, you know, there's a lot of churn. Yep. A lot more risk, I would say. So, um, yeah, service companies aren't that big for investment size, but- Yeah ... but even when I did my own thing, I never thought about raising money- Yeah ... or seeking an angel investor. It's like, no, you just put your head down and- And just do the work

[00:34:20] bootstrap it yourself. Yeah. Like, this is your thing, so it's either gonna sink or swim. Let's go. Yeah. 

[00:34:24] Chris: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

[00:34:26] Richard: That's wonderful. So, so you had, you had a couple clients and you had some 1099 arrangements- Yep ... uh, independent contractors. Yep. When, when was it you had to delegate and, and, you know, like, "Okay.

[00:34:38] I've, I've got way too much work on my hands. I need to start hiring employees." Yep. Uh, what was that transition like? 

[00:34:46] Chris: So the first part of that was, you know, I got to a point where it was like, all right- I've only got... I can't do any more accounting work, and the quality of the accounting work that I'm doing isn't as good as it could be because I can't be reviewing my own work.

[00:34:59] Mm. You know? So it's like I've got to get somebody that can do accounting, and that's where I started with some of the independent contractors. 'Cause again, I was bootstrapping it. I was like- Right ... I can't afford to hire a full-time person, but hey, I'll just pay you by the hour- Mm ... or I'll just, here's the monthly fee we're charging them and we'll, you know, here's the percentage split.

[00:35:18] Got it. So I did that for probably about three... I mean, this all happened really quick. I mean, that was about three months, and then I was like, "It's time to hire a full-time person," you know? Okay. And, 'cause I had, I had built up enough revenue where I was, you know, comfortable and I was like, "L- this is an investment.

[00:35:37] Like let's just, let's just do it." Mm. Like that's, that's what companies do, you know? Like- 

[00:35:41] Richard: Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Yeah. 

[00:35:42] Chris: And so I hired an employee, leased an office, like in the same month. Yeah. And I was like, all right, so it was like, had this nice office and there were only two people in there, you know?

[00:35:50] I was like, all right. Yeah. We gotta go get some more clients now. Yeah. 'Cause, uh, I just took a huge hit, you know? 

[00:35:56] Richard: Isn't that like the most exhilarating feeling? 

[00:35:59] Chris: So cool. 

[00:36:00] Richard: Like, like actually starting your own business, hiring people, and getting an office. Yes. And then they're all looking at you like, "What do we do next?"

[00:36:07] Yeah. And you're like, "I don't know." I don't know. I'm still learning as we go. 

[00:36:10] Chris: Put a sign on the building? Like- ... I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:14] Richard: That's awesome. Yeah. So, so fast-forward, where are you at today? Like what's your revenue, top line revenue look like? How many employees do you have? 

[00:36:21] Chris: So we have, uh, 25 employees now.

[00:36:24] Okay. Um, and- 

[00:36:24] Richard: All W-2 or, or a mixture? 

[00:36:26] Chris: All W-2. Okay. And then we've got three independent contractors. Okay. Two of which are still like from the very beginning. Mm. Uh, which is really cool, 'cause one of 'em, uh, Mike, he's, he's a retired CFO. Yeah. And you know, he was like, he was retired and, you know, him and I met and h- being able to find...

[00:36:44] And that's like the story is, man, the people that I've been able to bring on board and the people that I've worked with- Mm-hmm ... have been part of this. But like Mike for example, that guy doesn't need to work. He does it 'cause it's like, it's fun for him. Yeah, it's a passion. Yeah. And he, he, he wants nothing but the best for me.

[00:37:01] Mm. And like, you know, we'll... Yeah, he's just, he's j- I'm just very lucky that I've met p- Mike and people like him, you know- Right ... for example, and he's still with me and- Yeah ... doing projects and, um... But so we're at, um, yeah, so I've b- about 25 employees. I've got a v- vice president of operations. Mm-hmm. Um, I just hired an executive assistant about f- a month ago.

[00:37:23] Okay. Which has completely changed my life. Yeah. I mean, my productivity I mean- Yeah ... it's just, and she's, she's amazing. Um, we have an operations coordinator, Marissa, and she oversees, so we've got the co-working, or the co-working, the, the, the office space that we- Right ... lease out as well. Yeah. So Marissa helps with operations and also with the co-working stuff.

[00:37:47] And then the rest are accountants. Yeah. So accountants, accounting managers, controllers, CFOs. So we've only got four, like, like, true admin- Mm-hmm ... although I'm still doing quite a bit of client service. 

[00:37:58] Richard: Oh, sure. 

[00:37:59] Chris: Which is fine. Yeah. You know? 

[00:38:00] Richard: 'Cause you probably still enjoy that. 

[00:38:01] Chris: I do. Yeah. I do. Yeah. In, in some of the key accounts.

[00:38:04] Yeah. But, um, yeah, I mean, we've, I mean, we've doubled the business every single year. Yeah. 

[00:38:11] Richard: What's your, what's your top line look like? 

[00:38:12] Chris: Our top line is, is over, is over 300- Okay ... K a month. Okay. Which, you know, I mean, is like it's kind of crazy to sit back and think about that. 

[00:38:24] Richard: Yeah, like, like, from the first paycheck.

[00:38:26] From the first paycheck. Yeah. Yeah. You know, could've been, like, 10 or 12K, now you're doing 300K a month. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's wonderful. How many clients do you service? 

[00:38:34] Chris: We've got about 120 clients. Okay. Um- Yeah, 

[00:38:38] Richard: that must keep you popping, especially, like, around tax time. 

[00:38:40] Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the way that we, the way that we service our clients is we have teams.

[00:38:46] Mm-hmm. So we'll have a fractional CFO as the team leader, and then they'll have controllers, accountants, accounting managers underneath them, and they each oversee a portfolio- Mm-hmm ... of clients. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of collaboration that goes on between the teams, but generally, like, we don't have someone on this team doing work for a CFO over here.

[00:39:05] We try to keep it, like, you know, it's just operationally and from a quality perspective. Right. Got it. And so each team oversees their, you know, book of business- That's great ... so to speak. 

[00:39:16] Richard: Is it mostly small business, like tax reporting? You do some... You still do the fractional CFO things- Yeah ... where little monthly re- reconciliation, payroll, things like that.

[00:39:27] Yep. Um, do you do any mergers and acquisitions? Any, any other kind of exotic financial services, or just re- regular basic? 

[00:39:35] Chris: Yeah, no, we're, we're very, very core to, like, the bookkeeping and, and fractional CFO stuff. Mm-hmm. But, you know, the M&A side, we've, we, I mean, we're very, very much involved in. Mm. Like, we're not going out and, like, you know, doing a road show or, like, you know, like- Right

[00:39:52] doing, like, the true advisory, like, investment banking stuff. Yeah. But when you say M- M&A, it's like, hey, you know, if you're gonna sell your business, you need three years of, like... I mean, and you wanna get the most for your business, right? Right. Yeah. The, to optimize your enterprise value, we need three good years of clean financials, you know, and we've gotta have systems and processes in place so that- Mm-hmm

[00:40:15] you know, one, if you don't sell it, it's gonna make you the most money or, you know, generate the most value for you. Yeah. But, you know, if you do sell, it's gonna get you the highest multiple. Oh, yeah. So we're involved... So from that side, like, we're- Every business owner has a plan, right? And that's part of what we do when we start is, is like, "Hey, yeah, we could do the books, and to be a good CFO, we have to have good data," right?

[00:40:36] Mm-hmm. So that's why we do the, the bookkeeping side. But it's like, you know, where, where do you see yourself in five years, 10 years? Right. Like, what are, what are we trying to achieve here, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, and that's like that added value, and that's like really when you get into the CFO stuff is like we're talking about the future.

[00:40:51] Mm-hmm. And what do we need to do to be able to get you ready to achieve that goal? Yeah. Yeah. And we've been involved, we've had a couple clients sell their business. Um, we're helping a company get ready to go to market right now. A, a big company, which is, you know, one of those opportunities that comes to- comes together and you're like, "Wow, we just won that?"

[00:41:09] Yeah. Like, they're relying on us. Yeah. But I mean, we're fully capable. You know, it's like the imposter syndrome, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like they're listening to me? Like, what? Oh, yeah. Um- Yeah ... and we've been doing a heck of a good job for them too- Oh, sure ... which is cool. Yeah. But so that's the level of M&A that we're involved in, I'd say.

[00:41:25] Mm-hmm. Um, and then we've done... One thing I'm most proud of is I helped one of my clients restructure all their debt. I mean, like literally like they were gonna go bankrupt. Mm. Like, like from all sides. And I was able to call through my network, there's an advisory group in Chicago, and we worked this deal out and we restructured his, this debt and like, like the business is doing really good now because- Mm

[00:41:49] we put 15K a month in free cash flow back into the business. Yeah, that's wonderful. You know? So like- Yeah ... that's the... We do little things like that as well- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... and it's fun when you can get a win. You know? Yeah. 

[00:41:59] Richard: Yeah, totally. So when I was running my professional service in Northern Virginia, we worked with a guy, his name was Dean.

[00:42:06] Mm-hmm. Very similar to you and your story. He was a CPA, but he was government contract specialist. Okay. Like, he just knew it inside and out. Um, and he could handle all the audits, all the financial prep. Yep. You know, even when you put proposals together, he could handle the financial volumes- Yeah ... and the, the packages, I guess you could say.

[00:42:28] Um, and he had, I wanna say about 150 clients. He was stationed in, in, in Maryland- Mm-hmm ... so he worked both at Fort Meade and down in Virginia, mostly for the intelligence community companies. But there's a ton of small business, you know, 50 employees or less- Yes ... out there. You know, hundreds. And he would come and do the books.

[00:42:50] Like, we would run payroll, give him the reports, and he would reconcile the payroll and all the financial statements in QuickBooks. And I believe he was charging us, if I can remember, it must have been 1,200 a month. Mm-hmm. 1,600 a month. Yeah. And it was like banger. Like, yeah, man, this is great. Yeah. I don't have to hire somebody full-time to do this.

[00:43:14] Yep. And they were using QuickBooks Online, so- Yep ... they didn't have access to any, any of the servers or anything. Exactly. So, uh, it was a good model. And the reason I bring that up is he eventually got into M&A advisory stuff where- 'Cause, you know, brokers, if you go to a typical financial broker that can handle M&A deals- Yep

[00:43:34] they charge 2 and 3%, you know. Now, back in the day it was maybe 3, $400,000. Mm-hmm. Now it could be, you know, 800K to 3 million, you know. And there's also a minimum of 750. Yes. So you're just like, "Oh my God." But he, he would kind of say, "Look, you don't need a broker. If I know some people that would buy you, I know your financials, just pay me 300K and I'll get it done."

[00:43:57] Yep. And a lot of companies are like, "Done." Heck yeah, done. It's like... So, so he made some bank doing that as well. He did. Um, so it's a good, it's a good model to be... 'Cause you're already there, you know? Yeah. It's like, what do you need an M&A broker for- Yeah ... when as long as you, you know, can talk the finances and look at the statements and understand.

[00:44:15] Chris: You know, that, people ask me all the time, "Hey, like, are you guys gonna buy, you know, buy a tax practice and roll taxes in? Like, what other, like, services are you gonna roll in?" Yeah. And I've been very core to, like, you know, good to, from good to great, the hedgehog concept is like- Right ... find what you're good at and try to be the best in the world at it.

[00:44:33] Mm-hmm. And I think bookkeeping and, you know, CF- fractional CFO services is it for us. Yeah. But the one that I, that I think about all the time is the M&A piece, because who better to represent your company than, than the fractional CFO that you've been working with for the past five years? Exactly. Right?

[00:44:50] Yeah. But on the other end, you know, I've got a bunch of great advisory partners- Mm-hmm ... and we refer a lot of business together, and at one point is it's just like, "Hey, like, you do it and just s- you know, kick us a fee," or something like that. Right. But I don't know. That's one that I'm, like, serious- that, you know, in the next couple years, you know, will be interesting to see where it goes, but- Mm-hmm

[00:45:10] um, so yeah. 

[00:45:13] Richard: So transitioning from the business of accounting and bookkeeping to, to running a business- Yeah ... I mean, that's, that's huge. Yeah. Um, and your background's not a MBA. Mm-hmm. Um, did you decide to go back and take some MBA classes on business strategy operations? Is it more on-the-job training?

[00:45:32] Did you do an- Yeah ... executive ed? Like, how did you, how did you handle that transition from being a service provider- Yep ... of financial services to running a business? Yeah. 'Cause they're two different things. Totally, totally. 

[00:45:44] Chris: Yeah. Um, I think that I always liked to read, like, the leadership books. Like, even when I was an auditor- Mm

[00:45:51] like, I was reading, you know, like, Jim Welch's, um- a book, I forget which one it was, but it's basically his, his whole, like, philosophy on people and- Mm-hmm ... like HR and culture. Um, or maybe it's Jack Welch, the GE CEO. Oh yeah, Jack Welch. Jack Welch, sorry. Yeah. Um, and then Good to Great, and you know, some of those other books.

[00:46:09] So I was always like very just like intrigued by leadership. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't know why. Like, I just... And it made sense to me. But you know, when I came from ABB to go work for the, um, smaller business here in Wilmington, that's really where I got to test like my entrepreneurial skills and like leadership role.

[00:46:26] Mm-hmm. Because I was the CFO of this company, but you know, I was also kind of the COO and like the HR guy. Yeah. And so, like, you know, four years there was the p- you know, was a really, really good education. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Um, but when I started my own business, you know, I, I started getting into some executive coaching stuff and, you know, there's been some, some people along the way that have helped me reframe stuff for more of like a, you know, from a leadership and like strategy perspective.

[00:46:55] Mm-hmm. And I just lis- I listen to a ton of podcasts. Podcasts, yeah ... you know? Um, and I'm just, you know, I just, I'm... It's just comes natural to me. Like, I like people. Mm-hmm. I'm very goal-oriented. Mm-hmm. You know? Like, if you give me a list of stuff to do- ... like, I'm, I'm gonna try to get it done today or else I'm gonna be stressed out, you know- Right

[00:47:16] if I don't. You know, which is, you know, not necessarily a good thing either. Yeah. But, um, a lot of it has come naturally to me. Yeah. But I've done, I've invested in some lead- into, in some executive coaching and some leadership stuff to really kinda- Mm-hmm ... what are Chris's blind spots, what are my weaknesses, and- Sure

[00:47:32] and just being aware of them- Yeah ... you know, is- Yeah ... has been a- 

[00:47:35] Richard: Just curious, um, what's your zodiac sign? Like-

[00:47:39] Chris: I honestly don't know. 

[00:47:40] Richard: Well, what, what, what- It's- ... month were you born? 

[00:47:42] Chris: January 30th. Is that Aquarius? 

[00:47:44] Richard: I believe so. Yeah, Capricorn, I think Capricorn ends somewhere like mid to end January. I think, 

[00:47:50] Chris: yeah, I think Aquarius.

[00:47:52] Richard: Yeah. Yeah, you, you've got way more Ca- Capricorn than I. Okay. 

[00:47:55] So. Interesting. 'Cause you, you look at these things, it's, they're all patterns, you know? Yes. And it's, it's just fascinating to look at it. Now, I'm, I'm not a big zodiac, astrology kinda guy, but it's just, it's interesting to kinda learn patterns and- Yeah

[00:48:08] how people operate. And- Yeah ... there was a book I, I was... One of the classes I took at Purdue for my d- doctorate, um, there was a book, and they color-coded people's personalities, like, you know, red, yellow, green, and blue. And it's just fascinating 'cause it, it pretty much puts everybody in one of those buckets.

[00:48:29] Mm-hmm. And it, it tells you, like, how to operate with them, like what makes- Yes ... them tick, and- Yeah ... so it's, it's, it's, it's a leadership book, but like how do you, how do you operate with these type of personalities? Definitely. But, you know, obviously, finance, accounting, you know, people with like, you know, just that kind of ability, you know, I think, uh, heavily fall on, on Virgo and, and Capricorn- Yes

[00:48:51] 'cause they're just the more, the business type people. Yes Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, that is very interesting. Um, that's a great story. And the other thing I'm, I'm really impressed by you, um, is your culture of your company. 'Cause I, you know, obviously taking a tour, you could tell that this is, this has your signature.

[00:49:13] Like, your personality kind of comes out in your company. And, um, and I think you've done a good job with that. You know, just looking at your website, looking at the events you sponsor, you know, how you treat your employees, um, you know, it shows, it shows, uh, very well. So I think you've done a, a great job with that.

[00:49:33] Chris: Thanks, man. Yeah. I mean, that's... For, for you to say that means a lot because that's something that I have put as the number one priority in building- Yeah ... this thing. And, you know, yeah, I said, "Hey, we're gonna... You know, we're on pace to break four million this year in revenue." You know, but a lot of that does not, a lot of it does not drop to the bottom line because, you know, of the things I do to invest in- Yeah

[00:49:55] our people and our culture. Put back into it. Right? Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Um, but in the long run, it's the right, it's, it's the best investment that I can make. Um, especially a professional services firm, like- Right ... our ability to grow and continue is only, is a direct product of how many good people we can get- Exactly

[00:50:14] to come in and work for the company. Mm-hmm. So, and man, I, I really appreciate that. And, you know, like, and the way that I built it was in... It's just that I'm a normal person, and when I worked for Deloitte, and when I worked for ABB, and when I worked for this other privately owned company, this was all the stuff that really frustrated me.

[00:50:34] Right. You know, like why can't we do it this way? And so I've just built it just based on like, uh, how I think it should be done, like- Exactly. And at the core of it is, is just, it's all about the people. Mm-hmm. It's finding the right people and then just challen- giving them like, you know, just challenging them then.

[00:50:52] Right. And, but also having the resources and, you know, the tools to be successful. Sure. And also an environment where you can come and have fun. I mean, we spend- Yeah ... how much time do we spend with our work colleagues? I know. Right? Majority of the week. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it's like, you know, this should be a place where people wanna come.

[00:51:07] That's right. And- Yeah. I mean, 

[00:51:09] Richard: like you said, a professional business, pr- professional service, ProServe, it's a people business. Yep. And you have to make people your number one asset. Yep. Uh, because if they're happy, then your clients are happy. Exactly. Suppose they're delivering great service- Yep ... with a smile.

[00:51:24] Ser- no, 100%. And they need to have fun. Yep. And, and they need to look forward to coming to work. Yep. You know, one of the things I look back, growing up with my dad, and he sacrificed a lot for me, but like, I know he hated his job You know, I mean, we talked about it sometimes and, and I mean, he made the best of it.

[00:51:42] Like anything in life- Yeah ... you have to make the best of situations that you're, you're in. Yeah. Um, but was it, was it enjoyable? Like, you know, did you actually look forward to getting up every day? Not really. Mm-mm. It's like, "Oh, God. I gotta get back to work," you know? Yeah. And then, of course, you've got other people that you can commiserate with or- Yeah, exactly

[00:52:00] have some fun with. But, um, but I think it's like, yeah, you're right. If you spend, you know, 40, 50, 60 hours a week, uh, away from your family, you need to make sure that it's rewarding. Mm-hmm. Not just for the boss and the company, but for you as an individual, either by enriching your life, enriching others' lives, you know, financial compensation, working with others and just feeling good about it.

[00:52:27] Chris: Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. And, um, yeah, I'd, I'd say it's just been, you know, a huge priority. It... But also, like, it's just... I was like, "You know, I wanna do this my way," and like, "I wanna-" Mm-hmm ... "I wanna have fun every day at work." Right. So it's like, it's like how much fun can a bunch of accountants have, you know- Yeah, yeah

[00:52:46] each day? But we do. Yeah. Yeah. We got a good group. Culture is so important. Yeah. 

[00:52:50] Richard: So your work with small business- Mm ... um, can you extrapolate maybe top three, top five issues that you kinda see, common issues, and what are some of the things that they can do to kind of avoid those- Yeah ... pitfalls? 

[00:53:05] Chris: Definitely.

[00:53:07] The top things are, you know, my financials don't make sense, or I don't get them timely, or both, which is- Mm ... which is really bad. Um, and then the other one is just... is the idea of, "I've got this much money in the bank account today, I think I'm good." Mm-hmm. You know, it's, it's, it's the lack of, like, the, the forward- Right

[00:53:34] the forward planning. Okay. 

[00:53:35] Richard: So, so lack of discipline around- Like- ... your financials. 

[00:53:37] Chris: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:53:38] Richard: When you say the financials don't make sense, does, does that mean, like, the expenses don't match the revenue? Like, like, are you, you know, I wouldn't say doing stuff illegal, but like- Yeah ... just from a... 'Cause, you know, businesses have a rhythm- Yeah

[00:53:53] depending upon any business. Yep. Um, you're saying that they don't follow the rhythm. Like, something's out of whack here. Yeah. Why, why is your payroll this, or why is your expenditures that kind of a thing? Yeah. 

[00:54:04] Chris: And it... The, the, the root cause of that could be a couple different things. One is the person that's doing it just isn't doing it right.

[00:54:12] Mm-hmm. Like, they are just not accounting properly. Or, hey, this chart of accounts that you have, like, this is way overcomplicate. Like, we don't need a, a GL code for every, you know, like- Yeah ... business... you know, every expense. Like, let's, let's simplify this. Let's consolidate it. But then really it's... And this is not a knock on, on tax CPAs, but- There are a lot of small businesses that are like, "Yeah, you know, I only talk to my tax CPA, you know, you know my CPA once a year."

[00:54:41] I'm like, "Yeah, that's what you're paying for." Mm-hmm. Like, he's doing your... He or she, they're doing your tax returns. They're- Mm-hmm ... you didn't sign up for them to be your financial advisor throughout the year. Mm-hmm. And so people, like, unknowingly relying on the wrong relationship to provide the service that they need.

[00:55:01] Right. You know? And it's, like, educating, say, "Hey, you know, here's what you need throughout. Like, every month you should be reconciling your financials and reviewing them with somebody that can explain them to you." Mm-hmm. And that's, you know, I'd say that's the... At a, at a higher level, like, that's the, the biggest issue that we see, is the lack of discipline.

[00:55:21] Mm-hmm. Because it's so easy to just, you know, I'm a business owner, I'm just, I, I'm gonna go focus on the next sale, you know? Right. That's what makes me money. Yeah. Like, I'm not gonna... I'll worry about this later. And then next thing you know it's like, you know, it all compounds on itself. Yeah. Yeah, it's a huge problem.

[00:55:35] Richard: Yep. And it goes back to the delegation, you know? And we, we talk about bottlenecks- Yes ... in companies all the time. Yeah. And the, the founder feels like they need to do everything, you know? Yep. But what happens is they fail to do some things that are necessary to make them successful- Right ... because they don't have the vision or the discipline to delegate and to bring other people in, for whatever reason.

[00:55:57] Yep. Um, is it fear? You know, are they paralyzed to some degree? Maybe they don't understand. Yep. Uh, and there's a lot of business, a lot of business owners get into it, and really they shouldn't do it, you know? Yeah. It's like they needed to, you know, prepare a little more before they jump in the w- it's like jumping in the water.

[00:56:15] You gotta learn to swim before- Yeah ... you can sink. So. That's exactly right. Um, and having good, you know, finance is number one. You gotta have your financials in order because if- Yep ... you know, if anything can sink your, your startup, it's, it's having bad financials. 

[00:56:29] Chris: That's right. That's exactly- 

[00:56:30] Richard: Or getting in trouble with taxes.

[00:56:32] The other thing I've, I've ran into, not me personally, but other people I've, I've done, noticed, is that, um, they didn't save their money for taxes, you know? They make money, but they didn't, they didn't pay forward in their estimate payments. Yes. And then they get, like, this large bill, and they're... And not only that, they have to pay for the next year too.

[00:56:53] Yeah. They don't have enough money, and then it just gets into a cycle where you're in debt- Yeah ... to the government, and it's like, that's the kind of thing they need to educate them a little more. It- And I don't, I don't think, like, schools even... Maybe colleges do, but, like, but, like, just paying taxes and understanding, like, if you make more than you did last year, then guess what?

[00:57:14] You're gonna have to pay more in tax, but also more in estimates. Yes. In April- Guess what? Q1 of the next year's due just like the remainder- Yeah, just- ... of last year. 

[00:57:25] Chris: Exactly. 

[00:57:26] Richard: Nobody tells you these things- No ... till you get into it. And then, oh, by the way, Q2 is in June, Q3 is in September. It's like, oh my God.

[00:57:33] Yes. Where's this money gonna come from? Yeah, exactly. 

[00:57:36] Chris: And- And then also the same with payroll taxes. Yeah. You know- Yeah ... you're withholding this stuff, like, you know, if you don't have... Th- th- thank God, you know, we've got all this technology now and software that can, like- Automate some of it ... automate a lot of it.

[00:57:49] Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, what you're saying, that goes back to the future, like the planning. It's like, yeah, you got 300 grand in the bank account right now, that's great, but, like, here's what your cash flow looks like for the next three months. You got all these investments- Yeah ... and expenses and estimated payments and stuff, and it's like you're actually n- you know, you're kinda squeaking by- Yeah

[00:58:07] at, right now, you know? 

[00:58:08] Richard: I do think high schools, both public and private, need to do a better job at financial literacy. 'Cause I think kids today are coming out and they have no clue how to balance a checkbook. I know. Even if they have an account. Like, you should have a savings account by the time you're, like, five years old.

[00:58:24] Yep. You know? And, and you should reconcile it, and you should understand interest, and understand compounding. Mm-hmm. You know, I talk to people all the time about compounding, whether it's financial compounding, knowledge compounding, skill compounding, and it's like everything compounds. Yep. And you just have to, like, be able to put yourself in that position to benefit from it and...

[00:58:46] But they just don't get it, you know? I don't understand it. It's just they're not doing a good job, I don't think. No, I know. 

[00:58:51] Chris: Yeah. I mean, it, like, tax, like, taxes, income taxes is ev- generally probably, like, everybody's biggest fear and unknown. And, like, back to your thing, it's like I never had a class in high school that explained at a very high level, like, income taxes and, like, you know, what you, you know, what you should do to be able to prepare for it and so on.

[00:59:13] Yeah. I mean, just very basic stuff. 

[00:59:15] Richard: Yeah. I took accounting in high school as an elective. Mm-hmm. Me and, me and my buddy, uh, his name was Richie. I was Richie growing up in high school, but... So we were, we were best friends, and we were the only two guys in the class. It was all girls. 'Cause everybody else took mechanic or, or shop or something.

[00:59:32] Yeah. It's like, "Let's go take that accounting class." 

[00:59:35] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:59:36] Richard: But, you know, they, they taught you more about the basics, you know? Like, oh, taxes- They're good ... payroll, how to do, you know, spreadsheets and, you know, assets, liabilities, owner's equity. Yeah. I mean, it's, it was 101 stuff. Yeah. But, but you got to have your own chart of accounts- That's cool

[00:59:51] and it'll settle everything out, so. Um, but no, they, they have... They should make that mandatory. Yeah. For sure. Definitely. Um, so before we wrap up, um, I wanna know your thoughts on AI and how it's impacting your business. Because- Yeah ... you know, there's... All the podcasts I listen to now, um- I'm a very techy driven kind of guy, you know?

[01:00:16] Mm-hmm. Um, some call me a nerd. You know, I'm, I'm... I guess I'm a nerd, I gue- I don't know. But, um, I just, I love the technology side. But I'm, I'm con- I'm concerned about AI because you've got... We talked about Jensen and Nvidia before we started recording. Mm-hmm. And you talk to any of those tech guys, um, Meta, Oracle, Google, Microsoft, and the like, they all are, are preaching the same thing, that, um, AI is gonna consume jobs.

[01:00:49] You know, Anthropic, OpenAI. Mm. I'm so sick and tired of hearing Sam Altman. Like, when I hear him talk, it actually m- you know, like, when you hear, like, you s- scrape, you know, like, a chalkboard? Yes. And the... kind of that icky feeling? Yes. When I hear Sam Altman talk, that's how I feel now. It's like I just turn it off.

[01:01:07] Yeah. Like I can't even stand hearing the guy talk. Yeah. Um, but, um, but what are your thoughts about this? Like, is it real? Are you seeing impacts? Because I, I kind of think some of it is bullshit a little bit. Yeah. Um, there... and there's, there's some improvements of, of optimization and operational things, but, I mean, is it gonna kill everybody's job?

[01:01:30] I don't think so. Yeah. You know, it's, it's gonna create jobs. I mean, it's gonna take a time to kind of develop those new labor cats- Yeah ... and how things evolve, but, like, I'm so sick and tired of hearing all this chat about- ... it's gonna kill everybody's job in, like, you know, 18 months or, or two years, or whatever.

[01:01:46] Yeah. So, but I wanted to see, like, are... what are your, what are the direct impacts are you seeing- Yeah ... from your side- Yeah ... on the financial side? 

[01:01:54] Chris: So, and you know this, that accounting departments have been getting consolidated and replaced with technology for b- what? 25, 30 years, maybe even longer, right? Mm.

[01:02:05] You know? But, so there's always been this idea of technology replacing, like, manual processing, and accounting departments are, like, a, a key, you know, opportunity to be able to a- automate, right? Mm. Um, with more of the day-to-day stuff. So, but what I've seen specifically is that there's companies that say that they have AI doing your accounting, but they offshore it to the Philippines.

[01:02:33] Right. And so it's like l- it's literally just low-cost labor, and they're calling it AI. And, hey, maybe they're developing something- Mm ... and, you know, that's cool. But, you know, most small businesses use QuickBooks or Xero or something like that. Mm. But, you know, QuickBooks, you know, they've got a ton of automation built into the accounting platform, right?

[01:02:55] Um- You know, and then, uh, you know, and then all, like, across the tech stack, you know, you've got your QuickBooks, and then you've got, let's say you've got an API to your inventory management, your point-of-sale system, or, like, whatever. Like, with, with a bunch of builders we work with, they have, you know, CoConstruct or ProBuild or, you know- Mm-hmm

[01:03:13] like, their, their main, like, operating system. And, you know, call it AI or call it technology, I mean, the way that those systems communicate- Mm ... and the way that you can exchange data, like, instantaneously is... I mean, it's amazing. And I mean, it has literally removed some jobs from some companies because you don't need that admin person anymore because, you know, the superintendent puts the information into this.

[01:03:39] It goes to QuickBooks and- Mm-hmm ... and all that. Um, but there is no... This is the question, you know, that I, like, think about every morning now, is, like, you know, when and how is this really, really gonna change our lives? And right now it has made us much more efficient with our work and much more effective, right?

[01:04:04] Mm-hmm. So we're able to do a lot more work in a lot less time. Mm-hmm. And, you know, our clients see, you know, the benefits of that as well. Um, but at some point in time, you know, is it two years? Is it five years? Is it 10 years? Like, the role of an, of a bookkeeper will be taken over by AI at some point.

[01:04:24] Mm-hmm. And the way that I'm thinking about this is, how do we become the company that shepherds all these small businesses through this AI revolution, right? Mm-hmm. We're the company that knows the right tools, knows how to implement it, knows the security. But at the end of the day, you still need an advisor.

[01:04:45] Right. Because you can use AI to automate a bunch of manual tasks, and hey, it's, it's actually really good at doing analysis as well and, like, you know, running projections and scenarios. But I'm gonna drop a Jensen quote, um, from his podcast on Lex Fridman. He says that... He said, "Intelligence is going to become a commodity."

[01:05:06] Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, you know, like- Yeah ... and I get it, but experience and perspective- Mm-hmm ... is not something... You know, that's kind of outside of what we're- Right ... you know, experiencing- Yeah ... with, with AI. And so I say all that to say, you know, we can automate all this stuff, but you still, you still need somebody that can, you know, understand, you know, empathize and understand, like, the true perspective of what people are going through in their business.

[01:05:33] Right. And that's where, you know, our company's gonna continue to grow, is we're gonna be the experts in AI- Mm-hmm ... to help you integrate the systems, because you're gonna need somebody to help you do that. Like, you, you know, you, you're, you own a... You started a plumbing company. You got 30 employees. You know, you're killing it.

[01:05:50] Mm-hmm. But I don't, you know, I don't know how to- AI is cool, but like how the hell do I use it? Right. Right? Yeah. So to your point, it's, yeah, it's gonna eliminate the bookkeeper job, but it's also creating a job for, uh, an advisor to help you figure out the right tools to use- Mm-hmm ... and make sure that it's operating the right way.

[01:06:09] Richard: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's similar to like when AWS came on the market and, you know, in the tech world, we had network engineer, we had a systems a- anal- or a systems administrator- Mm-hmm ... and we had a database administrator. Three distinct jobs doing three different things, but when AWS came on board, those three labor cats got combined into DevOps.

[01:06:35] So now we have a DevOps engineer that can basically do a DBA's job, a network job, and an SA job. Yeah. So I, I kinda see AI doing similar things, where your labor cats could consolidate because of, of how the software's automating some things and, and, but it's gonna create some new things as well. And then, and even Jensen, to his credit, he, he, he made the same comment.

[01:07:01] He goes, "We sh- if, if done right, AI should be creating jobs- Yes ... not removing jobs." Mm-hmm. So, so the CEOs of these large tech companies, to some degree, have an obligation. Like they- Heck yeah ... they should be creative in looking for ways to how AI can expand and create versus extract and remove. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I mean, the economy depends on that.

[01:07:29] I mean, think about it. If you wipe out 20% of the economy, economic jobs, like it would implode. Like, who's gonna buy our stuff? Who's gonna- Exactly ... who's gonna go to trips to the beach? Who's gonna go to the restaurants and go out to eat? Yeah. Who's gonna, you know, go to parks? Yeah. I mean, nobody. You know, they won't have any money.

[01:07:45] So it's like, I don't know, it's kinda weird- 

[01:07:48] Chris: Yeah. No, it's- ... to some degree. I mean, it's, it's, it's really scary because there are real people losing real jobs, you know? And like, it's, you know, it's, it's sad and like you don't wanna see that, but it's, it's, it's just gonna happen. Mm-hmm. Like, it's going that way.

[01:08:04] And I like what you said about it's, you know, the responsibility, uh, of s- at some point for these tech CEOs to, you know, be socially responsible to our, you know, to our communities. To be like, "Hey, how can we use AI to increase the benefit and increase the impact and, you know, create- Right ... more opportunities for people.

[01:08:23] Yeah. 

[01:08:23] Richard: Just to be more creative. 

[01:08:25] Chris: Yeah. 

[01:08:25] Richard: Use it for good, not for- Yes ... not for bad. 

[01:08:27] Chris: Yeah. You know? Um- 

[01:08:28] Richard: Well, I wouldn't say bad. I would just say, you know, improving productivity and profits by- Yes ... you know, reducing labor. Yep. So. You know, you look at the federal government. I mean, like, yeah. I mean, could you wipe out 25% of the federal government jobs and use software?

[01:08:46] Absolutely. Yep You know? I mean, yeah, g- go to GSA and figure out how many people it takes to order a software package. Three months and probably eight different workflows you have to go through for approvals, and you can go down to Staples and buy it for 200 bucks. You know, and the government pays $5,000- Yeah

[01:09:04] per unit, well, because it has to go through those checks and balances. You know, could you just create amazon.com for the government, go buy your stuff? Absolutely. Yep. But they don't do it because they... It's a jobs program, effectively. Mm-hmm. And so I think AI, as good as it is providing skills, opportunities, and, and some new things, it, it does carry obligation- Yeah

[01:09:29] the, to create new jobs and create opportunity because we don't need to create an underclass. Yep. You know, I mean, that's not, that's not worth living. That's not what- Yeah ... American values are built for. Um, but I don't want to go on a soapbox. Yeah. 

[01:09:44] Chris: No, I, I'm with you on that. 

[01:09:46] Richard: Yeah. Well, that's great, man. Well, I, I appreciate you coming.

[01:09:50] Chris: Thank you. 

[01:09:50] Richard: Yeah. Yeah. This has, this has been, this has been great. 

[01:09:53] Chris: You did a really good job interviewing and- ... asking questions and- 

[01:09:57] Richard: Well, I wanna make it- ... it's, it's been fun ... conversational instead- You did really good ... of, you know, kind of going through- Yeah ... different questions. I've had interviews before, and it's like I come in with a list of like 10 or 12 questions, and we end up talking about whatever.

[01:10:07] But- Yeah ... I think it's, it's a much better experience when you're just sitting here as a human being and having a... It's like we, we could be at a bar and out having a beer- Yeah, exactly ... and have the same conversation. 

[01:10:16] Chris: Yeah. I've done that before with s- with people. I'm like, "Man, I wish we were recording this on a podcast," You know?

[01:10:22] Like, where you just have like a really good session with somebody. Yeah. You know, I'm like, "Damn, we should've been recording that." 

[01:10:27] Richard: So, so folks that have been listening to you- Yep ... um, how do they contact you? Because I know we've got active l- users all over the country. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I know y- your clients are not just based in Wilmington.

[01:10:42] Right. Anybody could reach out to you. Yeah. But how, how are they gonna contact you? 

[01:10:45] Chris: Um, LinkedIn's good. Um, our website. We've got ema- I've... My email address is out there. Um, yeah, it's chris@caponeandassociates.biz. Yeah. Um, but yeah, LinkedIn, Instagram, website. Sounds good. All that good stuff. 

[01:11:02] Richard: And we'll, we'll have all this in the- Awesome

[01:11:04] in the description for you, but. 

[01:11:06] Chris: Well, thank you very much. 

[01:11:07] Richard: Yeah. Thank you, man. I really appreciate this. This was fun. Yep. Enjoy the rest of your week. 

[01:11:11] Chris: Thanks.

[01:11:16] Amplified CEO is produced by Topsail Insider, edited by Coastal Carolina Network, and sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe, or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at 910-800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.