Lt. Gen. Joseph Anderson (Ret.) | Rafael Systems Global Sustainment

Amplified CEO E19 - Joe Anderson

[00:00:00] Speaker 2: Welcome to the Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur, Richard Stroupe with today's guest, retired Lieutenant General Joseph Anderson, who previously served as the Army's Deputy Chief of staff for G-3/5/7, and brings nearly four decades of leadership experience to the conversation.

[00:00:26] Richard: General Anderson. 

[00:00:28] General Anderson: Richard.

[00:00:30] Richard: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. 

[00:00:32] General Anderson: Thanks. No, thanks for having me. 

[00:00:34] Richard: Yeah. And, and of course, thank you for your participation in our Elevate CEO retreat that we just finished. 

[00:00:40] General Anderson: It was very enjoyable. 

[00:00:41] Richard: What did you, what were your first thoughts about that? 

[00:00:44] General Anderson: That people seem to get the difficulty of being a CEO and what it and, and, and they were very focused on people, and I could tell by anytime the topic was about teams motivating, caring for 

Prioritizing by reading their body language. They all understood the importance of, at the end of the day, it's about people. 

 and as, as much goodness you get out of helping people, there's also many challenges that come with people. So I, they seem, they seem to be very perceptive about that and mm-hmm.

[00:01:12] General Anderson: In tune with that. 

[00:01:13] Richard: And of course being business leaders such as yourself, uh, a small business, you know, but they still face the same challenges. 

[00:01:20] General Anderson: Yes, it's a scale, it's a 

[00:01:21] Richard: matter of scale that, that we have. And, and I was actually surprised at their feedback on one of the sessions that we had, which was about macroeconomics in the economy and where things were heading, and kind of looking at the trends, you know, using inflation for the cost of capital and, and how, you know, outside factors are starting to control, 

[00:01:42] General Anderson: right, 

[00:01:43] Richard: or limit some of the decisions that they can make.

Um, and I think it was an eye-opening, you know, lesson for them. And, and it was an hour and a half session that they ended up taking four hours to complete, you know, just through, you know, questions. Given examples and talking back and forth, which I thought was really, really powerful. 

[00:02:01] General Anderson: No, I wish I got to see that.

But I, but the, but the feedback last night from everybody talking about what they got out of the, out of your program was, again, all very positive. And, and the, and the theme from all of 'em was that they learned, they learned a lot from it, and they're gonna be better off for it. So that's, you know, that's, that's about the best compliment you can get, I think.

[00:02:19] Richard: Absolutely. Well, well hopefully, you know, if we have a one in the future, you should, uh, come back. 

[00:02:23] General Anderson: I'm gonna have to come do the program. 

[00:02:25] Richard: Yeah. I know Justin mentioned he is gonna add you to the LinkedIn group. 

[00:02:28] General Anderson: He is, he is. No, I, I asked him, I asked him to. 

[00:02:31] Richard: Well, be careful. He's 

[00:02:32] General Anderson: no, I, I, I know 

[00:02:33] Richard: he's very verbose.

[00:02:37] General Anderson: That's okay. Yeah. 

[00:02:38] Richard: That's okay. Well, he, he and I can add you to our Instagram, um, chat. And that's, we, we throw memes back on one another. Is 

[00:02:44] General Anderson: that you do? 

Yeah. 

[00:02:45] General Anderson: Yeah. 

[00:02:45] Richard: That's how we relate now. So, through memes, 

[00:02:47] General Anderson: well, he's, they, they were engaging people. They were good people. And you could tell, you could see why.

You could tell they were professionals because they wanted to be there to get better. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's always a first sign. 

[00:02:58] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:02:58] General Anderson: To me. 

[00:02:59] Richard: Now, is this your first time in Surf City or? Yes. Okay. And you spent time at Camp Lejeune? 

[00:03:04] General Anderson: I spent time at Lejeune on Anslow Beach. 

[00:03:05] Richard: Yes. Right, right. And you were mentioning how you enjoyed those beaches?

[00:03:10] General Anderson: I did. I did. It's, it is the one, it's the one beach in Carolina that we thought, well, it was our, our favorite, but, but we're always comparing to New England. So it's a, it's a hard to compare. 

[00:03:20] Richard: Yeah. '

[00:03:20] General Anderson: cause they are very, they are very different. The beaches are different. The, the surroundings are different. And obviously the, the cl the, the climates.

You can swim in this water. You can't, you can't swim in that water. You'll freeze to death. Yeah. 

[00:03:32] Richard: Now, which beaches do your family, uh, visit? You said New 

[00:03:35] General Anderson: England? We go to Hummer Rock, which is a, it's a, a series of island chains. One of 'em used to be, one of 'em is actually an Air Force Reserve Recreation center.

Mm-hmm. They have cottages on 'em. But on that particular. Peninsula Island, I guess is the right word. It's got a big watch, it's got a big cement watchtower. It used to be a World War II outlook for Boston Harbor. So as, as the crow flies, you can just about see Boston. Mm-hmm. But it's, it's below a fishing town called Situate, which is one of the last real classic fishing towns in, uh, at least in the Northeast.

And then right below that, this town called, it's in between Marshfield and Situ, but it's called Hummer Rock. And you go over, like your bridge over here, you go over a bridge to get to it, and you drive down along Peninsula and it's got a big beach spit. And it's a, it's a, it's a gorgeous beach, but all you can do is stick your toe in the water.

[00:04:23] Richard: It's very cold. 

[00:04:24] General Anderson: Yeah. That, that, that's the part I that's, that's the part I don't care for. 

[00:04:28] Richard: Yeah. Do you fish? 

[00:04:29] General Anderson: Not so much anymore. No. 

[00:04:31] Richard: Okay. Yeah. So my daughter goes to school near Boston at WPI. Yep. 

[00:04:35] General Anderson: Yep. 

[00:04:36] Richard: Yeah. We talked about her. We did. And you've met her before I 

[00:04:37] General Anderson: have, 

[00:04:38] Richard: you know, army RTC? 

[00:04:39] General Anderson: Yeah. 

[00:04:40] Richard: Yep. 

[00:04:40] General Anderson: She's gonna be a ranger someday.

[00:04:41] Richard: Yep. Hey, Audrey. Um, 

[00:04:44] General Anderson: hi Audrey. 

[00:04:45] Richard: Um, when we visit, sometimes we'll take her down to Mystic, Connecticut. 

[00:04:51] General Anderson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:51] Richard: Mm-hmm. Stonington. 

[00:04:52] General Anderson: Yes. 

[00:04:52] Richard: Yes. And, and some of those beaches down there. Yeah. And, uh, one time we actually went over to watch Hill, Rhode Island. Mm-hmm. Which is, it's about a 20 minute drive. It's not too far.

And I didn't know that. That's where Taylor Swift has her house. 

[00:05:05] General Anderson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:06] Richard: Like this. I mean, because you talking about some really wealthy 

[00:05:09] General Anderson: Yep. 

[00:05:10] Richard: Houses, like they're beautiful, they're large. They're, they're, they're beautiful. And, um, we were driving around, I was like, oh, there's a, there's a beach access over here.

And we see a couple dudes walking with, uh. You know, it look looked like, um, AR fifteens and I'm like, oh my God, who lives in this house? They have to have people walking around with AR fifteens. Yeah. Yeah. Come to find out it was Taylor Swift. 

[00:05:32] General Anderson: I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. 

[00:05:35] Richard: Yeah. Beautiful house though. 

[00:05:37] General Anderson: My neighbor used to be president of the NRA.

He, he has since moved, but every hour on the hour 

[00:05:42] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:05:43] General Anderson: Or we, our backyards were together and, and the guards would, they'd make a, they'd make a loop. 

[00:05:47] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:48] General Anderson: Every, and then in the wintertime you see 'em out there with flashlights and they're going around, so it's kind of 

[00:05:52] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:05:53] General Anderson: When you first get there, it's a little bit creepy.

[00:05:54] Richard: Right, right. 

[00:05:55] General Anderson: But the best beaches up there on the cape, by the way, that's the 

[00:05:58] Richard: Cape 

[00:05:58] General Anderson: Cod on the cape. It's kind of like, you're kind of a microclimate, like you've got going on over here mm-hmm. In Surf City. 

[00:06:03] Richard: Right. 

[00:06:04] General Anderson: It's, it's, it's, it's a pretty mild winter and then the beaches there in the summer. Are you, you can, you can go in the water.

[00:06:09] Richard: Okay. 

[00:06:09] General Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:06:10] Richard: Now you're from New York originally? I 

[00:06:12] General Anderson: am, 

[00:06:12] Richard: yeah. So take me back to your early years, like what motivated you to go to attend West Point? And, and join service. And, and, and all the many years that you've served for this country, uh, what was the, what was the early days that kinda led you down 

[00:06:29] General Anderson: that path?

The, the path that took me there was really in my family, because everybody, everybody in my family, my, my, my father and my uncles, my brother, you know, Vietnam era, world War II era, my grandfather was World War I. So it's a, it was a, it, it was a family of service. My mother was a, a Army Nurse Corps, uh, assistant.

Mm-hmm. So everybody did something where they contributed during rough times. And so I, I admired that. I respected that my dad was in VFW as Navy buddies would come around. They were really cool guys. And so, I, so the culture of that mm-hmm. It was topsy-turvy. My mother wanted me to be a doctor and I was gonna go try to be a doctor because she wanted me to be a doctor.

Mm-hmm. And then I finally realized one day, you're probably not gonna make it 'cause you don't really, you don't really wanna be a doctor. I've told you I wanted be like mm-hmm. 

[00:07:14] Christa Schroeder: You 

[00:07:14] General Anderson: know. The sheriff today. I, I wanted to be a state trooper. I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to do all kind of things, but a doctor was not, 

[00:07:21] Richard: yeah.

[00:07:21] General Anderson: Was not one of 'em. And then I went to a college day and, and West Point was not far from me. I, I had gone there to see games, I'd gone to see, uh, boxing matches and other things there when I was a kid. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I went to that particular booth at the, uh, college show or trade, whatever you call those things.

College fair, I guess it was. 

[00:07:39] Richard: Right. 

[00:07:40] General Anderson: And I went and I went to the booth and I talked to them and I, and then I, and all, and at that moment I said, I'm gonna go for this. And I was late in the game 'cause it was, it was the beginning of senior year because you have to go, do you have to get all that congressional, A guy's gotta sponsor you.

Mm-hmm. You have to go to all the physical tests, the medical tests, you know, all these things you gotta do. And so it was, it was late to need, but I did it and I applied to Air Force and got in and I applied to Coast Guard and got in. But the Coast Guard didn't call me until two days before I was shipping to West Point.

I think if they had called me first. I might've done that. Wow. 'cause the coast, you, you speak out New London there. Mm-hmm. Coast Guards are really cool. 

[00:08:17] Richard: Yeah. Beautiful campus 

[00:08:18] General Anderson: there. Well, and, and, and, and the coast guard's in much better places than the Army, uh, because they're typically by the water and not in places like Fort Polk, Louisiana.

[00:08:26] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:08:26] General Anderson: So, uh, but that, so after that, I never looked back. 

[00:08:29] Richard: Was leadership something that you sought out or was it something that you developed along your path of, uh, in West Point? 

[00:08:36] General Anderson: No, I don't think, I, I don't think if you defined, you know, I've been leadership, I've been captains of teams and things, but I don't know what leadership meant to me as a 17-year-old.

I, I don't. Mm-hmm. Uh, but once you get up there, you figure out pretty quickly what it means. And, and different and different styles. Uh, you know, the people that had power issues and wanted to, you know, treat you like crap because they could and mm-hmm. And then the ones that would try to help you and, you know, et cetera.

So, no, it's something you develop over time. I think I had a pretty good, uh, from how I was raised, uh, a tough dad and, you know, discipline and accountability. I think I was raised with good values. I think those helped leverage 

[00:09:14] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:09:15] General Anderson: Leader, my leadership as it developed. But then I just, then you just start learning from those you, you serve with and hopefully you, you're working for the right people.

[00:09:22] Richard: Right. 

[00:09:23] General Anderson: Because I've seen, I've seen bad guys train lots of bad people. 

[00:09:27] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:28] General Anderson: You can see it. Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:29] Richard: Because 

[00:09:29] General Anderson: you can literally see it. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then vice versa. You can see when you follow a good, a good role model. I had a great one, general o. Passed away a few years ago, but he was my boss a couple times.

And what a, what a mentor and role model he was. But they don't come any better, but mm-hmm. But you learn from you, you try to learn from the best. 

[00:09:45] Richard: Was he somebody you met after you first entered into service? 

[00:09:49] General Anderson: I met him at, as a, I was a battalion commander and we had been, I was, this was back when Kosovo was getting ready to happen.

I mean, we got our, our battalion got deployed from Fort Bragg down the road here to Albania. 

[00:10:00] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:00] General Anderson: Uh, and I first met him in Albania. 'cause the, the headquarters that was overseeing the operation then we were doing, we were, we were preparing raid to go into Kosovo. We didn't know if we were gonna go in peacefully or if we were gonna have to fight our way in.

So we were doing gun raid. And he was the, it was, it was fifth court at the time. At Germany. Mm-hmm. And he was the chief of staff. So I, I reported to, he was my direct boss. They put, I was the only non-European unit. On the ground there at the time. Mm-hmm. They were engineers, they were mp, they were all other kind of people.

Mm-hmm. Uh, but I didn't have a, my parent headquarters was, you know, down here at Bragg. 

[00:10:32] Richard: Right. 

[00:10:33] General Anderson: So I, I directly reported for him and that's how I first got to meet him. And we got along and then, and uh, over time he, uh, when I came to be the executive officer to the secretary of the Army, he was in the Pentagon and he was getting ready to take third core mm-hmm.

Which is at Fort Hood. And, and third core was getting ready to go back to Iraq, uh, right before the surge. And he asked, Dr. Harvey was the secretary, he asked Dr. Harvey if he could have me mm-hmm. To be his chief of staff. And begrudgingly that secretary of the Army was convinced by others, not by me.

Mm-hmm. Uh, to let me go. And he did. And so I became his chief of staff for that 15 month deployment, uh, to Iraq, a horrible, horrible surge period. And then, uh, he got promoted to four Star and went back as the four star commander. And the following year he asked me to come back to be his chief of staff.

When I was making, so I was a one star with him at third Core, then I became a two star with him at, at, at, at multinational force Headquarters, Iraq. 

[00:11:28] Richard: Right. 

[00:11:29] General Anderson: So I've spent a lot, a lot of, and of course we, we, we were neighbors on Meyer. We played a lot of golf, did a lot of things over the years. Mm-hmm. But, uh, but he was a, and then, then he became the Chief of Staff of the Army.

He's the one who put me in, uh, division Command. Put me in core command. Spent a lot of time with him in those days. Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, uh, he passed away too quickly, but very shortly after, only five years of, after, after retiring. So it was very sad. 

[00:11:53] Richard: I don't see you ever retiring. I think you, you're just kinda like gearing up for another adventure in your 

[00:11:59] General Anderson: life.

No, I want to, I just, I'm not in a good enough place yet that I can do it. 

[00:12:04] Richard: Right. I, 

[00:12:04] General Anderson: I'm never gonna stop doing stuff. 

[00:12:06] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:12:07] General Anderson: But a full-time not to have a full-time job. 

[00:12:09] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:12:10] General Anderson: At this point wouldn't be so bad. A lot more time on the golf course and tennis courts and. Beaches, 

[00:12:16] Richard: going back to your career in the Army, was, was there, um, was there a time when, um, you know, early in your career that tested your leadership and kind of emboldened you to become a better leader?

[00:12:29] General Anderson: My time in the, my time in the Ranger regiment at, up at Second Ranger Battalion up in, uh, joint, it used to be called Fort Lewis, now it's called Joint Base Lewis McCort. 

[00:12:38] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:38] General Anderson: Uh, was a really, a, really a really trial by fire because it's, it's, uh, it's such an elite unit. It's one of the units where most of the soldiers that come in there have no intention of making a career.

[00:12:51] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:51] General Anderson: They, that most athletes, scholars, all walks of life. Mm-hmm. But they come in to be in a high speed unit knowing that chances are they're gonna do, do, do something, meaning deploy. Mm-hmm. And go and go do the Lord's work in some other country and come back and they, and they would serve. Maybe not all of them came and went, but the, but a lot of 'em just came in, did their time and got out.

And that, in that period of time for me. Leading such a, such a top quality batch of, not that my other units weren't, soldiers weren't equally capable, but at that point in time, these guys were very capable. And then up, and then up, up to and through operation, just cause when we were, the, our company was the main effort for the combined joint Special Operations task force.

So we were the, we were the main. You may you may recall when the, when the when, uh, we, when the coup occurred, uh, for Under Against Noriega back in May of 89, that failed. Mm-hmm. And so the two, the two companies that were loyal to him, the ones that came down to, to, to surround the Commandante and protect him, changed the objectives for the operation.

So the vein operation became Rioja Airfield, where the, where the Ranger Company of the, of the Panamanian Defense Forces were, and their, and their little mechanized company. So the two, the two most prominent powerful units became the target. And so. Gearing up for that invasion, going through that invasion, dealing with that, and then putting everything back together again when we came home was probably that test that at that point I knew I was probably gonna go for the long haul.

[00:14:20] Richard: Mm-hmm. How old were you during this time? 

[00:14:22] General Anderson: 30. Yeah. 30. 

[00:14:25] Richard: 30. Was that your first true test in combat? 

[00:14:28] General Anderson: Yes. So much different than, than soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines. 

[00:14:32] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:14:32] General Anderson: Guardians, although guardians weren't around. But based on all the Iraq and Afghan deployments, I mean, most soldiers came in and, you know, were in combat within a year or so of going to a unit.

[00:14:42] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:42] General Anderson: It took me, it took me, uh, eight years in the Army to go to combat. 

[00:14:46] Richard: Most of that time you were in training or 

[00:14:49] General Anderson: No, I was in, yeah, I was in, I was in a meac. I was either in schoolhouse for my, in my infantry officer basic course and advanced course at Fort Benning. I did a, did, I did a tour in Fort Polk.

[00:14:59] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:00] General Anderson: Did a tour in Panama. That's where I had my first, that, that's where I had my first airborne company. 

[00:15:05] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:05] General Anderson: And then went to the rangers. And then turned around. And by the way, I was telling somebody that today, and I was telling Joe, your friend, the realtor guy, uh, I, those two companies I just mentioned, I used to train with those guys.

So the guys I was attacking were friends of mine. 

[00:15:20] Richard: Wow. 

[00:15:20] General Anderson: Talk about bazaar. So I knew the compounds, I knew the commanders, I knew the units. 'cause we used to go train with 'em. 

[00:15:26] Richard: Right. 

[00:15:27] General Anderson: And I went to Panamanian Airborne School there. So, so, and now, now I'm coming back and going, fighting the two guys that I 

[00:15:34] Richard: trained, 

[00:15:35] General Anderson: used to, used to drink CSO with.

[00:15:37] Richard: Yeah. That must have been really humbling. 

[00:15:39] General Anderson: It was weird. 

[00:15:40] Richard: Yeah, 

[00:15:41] General Anderson: it was weird. 

[00:15:42] Richard: So after that experience, and then you kind of made a mental decision to go the long haul as you mentioned. Yep. Uh, walk me through some of the other deployments and, and assignments that you had. 

[00:15:54] General Anderson: Okay. Well the, the next one was the, where I told you where I met OD Arnold.

So the next one was when we got deployed as the. It's called the Quick Reaction Force or QR F1 for short. Mm-hmm. When, uh, we got pulled outta Bragg to go do that in, uh, 99, uh, the problem there was, that was at the tail, it was the tail end of my two year stint down there. Mm-hmm. But because of the way things played out, we first went to Albania.

We got to Albania in April, and then we stayed there for about a month doing all that training. And then finally we got, when the Peace thing got signed, then we got, we got picked up and moved to Camp Abel Century, which is in Macedonia. 

[00:16:28] Christa Schroeder: Mm. 

[00:16:28] General Anderson: And that was supposed to be our staging training area. And they said, oh, you're gonna, you're gonna have a couple weeks here before you actually end up going into Kosovo.

[00:16:34] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:35] General Anderson: Well, what happened is the ru, once the deal got signed, the Russians had been in Bosnia and they rushed, they took up their forces and rushed down to get to Pristina the capital of Kosovo. And there was nothing there to, there was nothing there to keep them from going. So the Brits were on the, on the default line there between Macedonia.

And Kosovo. Uh, so the, I got, so I know Sooner got unloaded, going to meet the, uh, the staff there, got back to the tent, and then somebody came and got me and said, they want you back. And they, I got in there and I got my marching orders. It's b it was called the Onic Defile. It's a big, huge bridge that goes over a big gorge like the Grand Canyon.

It's, it's, mm-hmm. You look over the side, you think you're gonna die if the, and if the bridge is even gonna stay up. But you, you go across this thing and Right. There's a, a restaurant on the opposite side, and that's where the British headquarters were. And they said, be there, be there 11 o'clock tonight or whatever.

I forget exactly what time it was. Be there tonight. Go talk tomorrow morning. You're gonna do a relief in place with them. They're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna haul up to Christina. You gotta come back, Phil. And by the way, the Marines were on the ground as well. 

[00:17:40] Richard: Mm. 

[00:17:40] General Anderson: And my instructions were, make sure you beat the Marines in.

We want the Army to be in first. 

[00:17:45] Richard: Okay. 

[00:17:46] General Anderson: There are, there are rivalries. So, so we, I went back, we planned it, we went up and did the Brit talked to the Brits, said. Said how it was gonna work, came back and briefed my people. We packed everything back up. Maybe took about a two, I don't know, maybe, maybe about a two hour snooze or so, or whatever.

But seven o'clock in the morning we were all marshaled up. And then we, and then we convoyed up all day and got a, got got all set up. 

[00:18:06] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:07] General Anderson: And then flew a, uh, I kept one company back and we flew them into what is now called Camp Bond Steel, which was the first American base in Kosovo. It wasn't called Camp Bond steel then.

Mm-hmm. It was big grass, about as high as this ceiling here, about 12 foot high grass. It was all, it was beautiful pasture land. Mm-hmm. That had some streams going through it. Uh, but even a little, a little rickety bridges when you drove a Humvee over at the Bridges were collapsing. So, but, and now it's, now, it's now it's a sit now it's like a city.

But, but that's, but that's, that was the first forces we put in there. And so anyway, uh, I got to, I got extended to stay there, but they did make me come home. I was supposed to go to the Naval War College and, and they let me stay two months longer, so they made me go home about a month before the battalion got pulled out.

But that was a very. Supposed to be a peacekeeping 

[00:18:52] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:18:52] General Anderson: Deployment. Uh, in the end we documented 163 firefights over a 30 day period. 

[00:19:01] Richard: Mm. 

[00:19:01] General Anderson: So it was for real. 

[00:19:02] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:02] General Anderson: And so, and then, and then the army, I'm, I'm going on a tangent here, but, uh, the Army struggled with identifying it, even though certain people got awarded purple hearts and, and combat infantryman badges and all that kind of stuff.

So just interestingly enough, they just authorized a, uh, six months ago for the first two rotations that you could wear a combat patch if you were, if you were one of the first two rotations. And then they awarded and they awarded the cibs and everything here in the past year. So 25 years later mm-hmm.

They finally called it for what it was. So that, so that was a wild, uh, deployment, not being with the, not being with your parent unit, but being a stepchild mm-hmm. To somebody else. And then my first Iraq deployment was oh three. When, when the first arrange of, uh, the, the first series, now from 2003, all the way till, you know, 2010.

I was a brigade commander on the hundred first, and our brigade ended up being the main effort brigade for the division throughout the fight. Mm-hmm. So we, I mean, we fought ourselves all the way from the Kuwait border, all the way up through the J and, uh, all, all through, through Baghdad, all the way up to Mosul.

Mm-hmm. So it was, and that was a very wild, crazy year. So we, we, we kept hopping and moving and then all of a sudden you find yourself, you're at the beginning of that again. You're fighting, you're fighting combat, and by the time you get up there, then you're being told you're gonna take care of Mosul is about a two, at that time was about a 2 million person city, the second largest city, but also also the most ethnically diverse mm-hmm.

Seven different sects up there. So then all of a sudden you're run, you're run, now you're running a city and, and you're responsible for the power and the water and the banks and the fuel. And all the crazy things that happened up there over the riots and protests and, you know mm-hmm. You know, helicopter crashes and all the, all the bad stuff that comes with it.

Mm-hmm. You know, and then dealing and, and then being that far up dealing with the kur, the Kurdish issue as well. You're right, you're right on the border of Kurdistan. Mm-hmm. So the pesh and all that kind of stuff. So that was a, that was a, that was a long challenging tough year as a brigade commander there.

And then, uh, and then turned around and went back when I went that. So I got outta there in 2004, went back in 2006, did the 15 month deployment during the surge. Uh, came back and went back in 2009 to 2010 with ODO again, as at the, at the MNFI. Mm-hmm. And then in 2014, I took over command of the Corps down here at Bragging 13.

And in 14 we were the headquarters for the International Security Assistance Force Joint command. I'm sorry, I'm throwing a lot of words out there. IJC and we had the 12 month deployment in Kabul that we ran all of the, all of the ground operations. And, and so Drew, drew down a hundred bases at 25, drew down from 126,000 down to about.

12,000. 

[00:21:38] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:38] General Anderson: Uh, you know, multiple elections, insurgencies, uh, and all the stuff in between. So it was a, it was a, it was a crazy fast-paced. 12 months with 40, with 48 countries. 

[00:21:52] Richard: Wow. 

[00:21:52] General Anderson: Under our watch. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Huge. From a cultural, linguistic, et cetera. 

[00:22:00] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:00] General Anderson: Perspective. 

[00:22:01] Richard: I remember you told me the one story where you, and you were in Mosul and you had all the, the warlords together or the, the, the, the leaders of the community.

Um, and you oversaw one of the first democratically Yes. 

[00:22:18] General Anderson: Yes. 

[00:22:18] Richard: Elected. 

[00:22:19] General Anderson: Yep. 

[00:22:19] Richard: Uh, processing. Right. So, 

[00:22:21] General Anderson: no, we ran, we ran. We ran. No kidding. Because every town had to have governance. 

[00:22:26] Richard: Right. 

[00:22:26] General Anderson: I sure as hell didn't wanna do it. Uh, so you had to, you had to try to make sure that you were inclusive of everything that was there.

Yeah. Which was very, very difficult. 'cause there were agendas, there were, you know, there was, you know, there's always the Shias Sunni stuff and all the other other stuff, other stuff that goes with that. But trying to get them, boy, and some of these, some of them were hilarious and some of 'em, 'em were just outright ugly.

But every, but every, every town in province, well, it was all men, a province, but every, every town we had there, and we went through, I forget how many, we ran, about a dozen of them. Mm-hmm. I think, uh, of the key cities. And, you know, with Mosul being the most com, Mosul and Mosul, a pretty, was a pretty modern, you know, decent, you know, rack's got money, they got oil.

I mean, there's, there's stuff there. Yeah. So, uh, there were some influential people. 

[00:23:09] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:10] General Anderson: But we pulled it off. They, they, they acted, you know, civilly and it, and, and it endured, you know, it endured. But then, then the bigger problems became Bagdad though, because of the, you know, the, the. Iranian influence, 

[00:23:23] Richard: right?

Yeah. 

[00:23:25] General Anderson: Was a big problem in Baghdad 

[00:23:26] Richard: in your mind, the transition from the time the troops were there and decided to leave and kind of hand power back over to the people, um, in your opinion, like, was that handled properly or, yeah. What, what were some of the mistakes 

[00:23:42] General Anderson: they made? You know, Bremmer at the time was running it for the, the, the defense department was running it under Bremmer.

[00:23:48] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:49] General Anderson: And we made, we just made some unilaterally uh, uninformed decisions. You know, the, when you say anybody, and I forget the top four levels now, anybody that was in the top four levels of the bath party, you're immediately expunged from your duties. Well, what do you think those kind of people are?

Those are the doctors. Those are the professors, you know, and I, and as I tell everybody, I don't, it's not that I was a, I'm not a Saddam Hussein lover. Well, not, not because of nuclear stuff or any of that. He was, he treated the people of Iraq. Poorly. 

[00:24:19] Christa Schroeder: Mm. 

[00:24:20] General Anderson: It was a, it was a, it was a bad system. So from a, you know, a human decency perspective, uh, he was wrong.

Uh, but to come in and say, if, if you lived there and go up there and your only way of survival was to join the bath party, I think that most average person is gonna join the bath party. 

[00:24:35] Richard: Right. 

[00:24:35] General Anderson: Because that meant, that meant you were gonna survive. 

[00:24:37] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:38] General Anderson: So I don't think it was anything malicious. It was survival.

[00:24:41] Richard: Right. 

[00:24:42] General Anderson: And unfortunately, those, again, those were the ones that were, because they did join the party, they were better taken care of and they were the most, they were the more of the elite professionals. So disbanding all that and then saying, who the hell is gonna do surgery or teach the university? When you're trying to put life, you're trying to get the university back, you know, the goal was to get everything up and running again.

So kids got off the street. 

[00:25:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:03] General Anderson: Kids went back to school. Other, the older, you know, the, the post high school. Could go to university 

[00:25:10] Christa Schroeder: mm-hmm. 

[00:25:11] General Anderson: And learn, you know, learn a skills and all that kind of stuff. So how mm-hmm. So how do you keep the economy running? So that, that was number one. And number two was the disbanding of all the forces, what you just referred to.

Mm-hmm. So when you, so when you just, when you destroy an army and say, everybody that's in, in, in a uniform today, tomorrow, you're no longer in uniform, then how, and, and that was more important on the police side than it was on the army side at, at that time. 'cause we were there mm-hmm. For the army. We, you know, Iraq wasn't gonna go back and, and invade equate anytime soon after what we just did to 'em.

Uh, but you did have to have police on the streets. 'cause there were criminals. There was, there were, there was every, every crime you could imagine, what there people were murder, murdering people, people were stealing stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, society was society, so you had to have cops. 

[00:25:53] Richard: Right. 

[00:25:54] General Anderson: And so trying to start from scratch and get an academy going and getting them again, getting them outfitted, getting 'em equipped, and, you know, so we played different, in some cases we just outright disregarded, which is not what we're supposed to do.

[00:26:05] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:05] General Anderson: But in order to, in order to succeed, we had to have a way. If you have a guy that's a seasoned policeman and he's trained and ready, I kind of want him, I kind of want him back out in the street. So we went through three police chiefs in a matter of two months. We couldn't, we kept finding the wrong guy and then we finally found the right guy.

And then, and then him and I were out in a patrol together and one of his police cars, and we got shot up and I didn't get hit. He got hit, he got tore, tore up his leg. So he was out, he was out for a couple months with a cast on, but a, a really good guy. But then when we left the unit that replaced us didn't work so much with those kind of people.

And then the insurgents got to him. Mm-hmm. And they bribed him and he ended up becoming a bad guy. Ended up he went from a good cop to a bad guy, 

[00:26:45] Richard: which is pretty normal there. 

[00:26:46] General Anderson: Well if, if, you know, if, if, if you don't partner one of the keys when you're in somebody else's nation, if you don't partner with what the, what that particular structure is, you're mm-hmm.

You're gonna probably have a hard time. And, and it, and it and that, and that's when things started falling up, you know? And that first year was very, very ugly. I think. I thought Iraq was on a very good path. Mm-hmm. Wasn't trying to be naive. I thought they were. And then, and then when, when we decided to, so a, uh, a brigade replaced the footprint of a division, and all of a sudden that was, that was the next decision, right?

So that now it's 2004. Mm-hmm. And you're coming in with a brigade that's gonna cover down on what an entire division did. That's, that's when the mistakes started happening in a, in a, in a big way. 

[00:27:25] Richard: Right. 

[00:27:25] General Anderson: And then, and then it just, and then it just started going then, then the bad guys outnumbered the good guys and, and then all, and then all the way back up to the surge 

[00:27:33] Richard: mm-hmm.

[00:27:33] General Anderson: Back of 2007, where, you know, we had a disaster on our hands. Right. A total disaster. 

[00:27:41] Richard: So looking back, when you're leading hundreds of thousands of troops in a foreign country, uh, with a purpose of, of trying to sustain belief and morale with an objective, um, how do you, how do you handle that in the middle of chaos?

Fear and fatigue, because I, I know that's, I, I can't imagine what kind of environment that must, you know, must be to operate in. 

[00:28:08] General Anderson: There are long days, that's for sure. And of course there's, you know, every day's Groundhog Day, you know, so there's no, there's no break. Uh, what I found effective Richard was, is a commander.

A place of commander has to be, just take it as far back as George Washington, you gotta be with your guys. Mm-hmm. And you gotta be out front and you have to communicate. And so I, I, I traveled my tail off every day to, uh, you know, as many sites I could get to on a given day, go on patrols, you know, do whatever it took, but to be with them and make sure you're always communicating.

[00:28:41] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:42] General Anderson: Why we're doing it, what we're doing, and, you know, and what, and what's happening. Uh, and then we had all the psych, you know, as we talked about today at your, at Elevate, you know, battle rhythm. What's the cycle that, how information's being processed so people, everyone's got a common understanding.

Common operating pictures, we used to say. Mm-hmm. What's that? What's this all look like? You know? So, but it, but it takes relentless being with your people. That's, and, and the only way you can tell if somebody's really doing is you can't do it on a phone. You can't do it on a radio. Just like I'm looking at you.

I can only, I can tell by looking at you. 

[00:29:14] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:15] General Anderson: If I've got, if you're hooked, if you're tired, if you're not with me, whatever. Uh, there's no other way to do it 

[00:29:21] Richard: in the face of, of so much change and chaos. You know, your, your strategy is only as good as reality will allow it to be. Um, as things shifted, how did you shift your priority from leadership point of view and leading the troops and trying to maintain, uh, the objective, 

[00:29:39] General Anderson: the difficult part there was balance.

So you, you know, 'cause it wasn't, as you shift from combat, just like the Kosovo stuff, when you shift from combat, your, your whole, your whole focus and your priorities change because you're trying, you know, you're, you're trying to get things back to. Normal, so to speak. Uh, and of course you wanna get, you wanna get outta there, you know, you don't wanna spend the rest of your life there.

Mm-hmm. And unfortunately, a lot of us did spend a lot of our life there, so, so it's how you're b as you're balancing the priorities more now. So from a civil affairs perspective mm-hmm. And how you're making sure. What are, what are the essentials, you know? And there were, and there were many programs like the Commander's Emergency Response Fund.

It was called serp. Mm. And that gave you buckets of money to go out there and invest, to build a new school, to build a new hospital, to build a new well. So it became very competitive amongst the Iraqis about who's, whose town village got what. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and, and it got nasty. But, so you had, but you had to have a way to figure out how you were gonna work that.

[00:30:36] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:37] General Anderson: That's different than combat, you know, com combat's the combat's, the hop, hop, hop, hop, and, you know, a whole, a whole different process. 

[00:30:44] Richard: So what lessons learned did you have from the Iraqi experience prior to rolling into Afghanistan? 

[00:30:51] General Anderson: Probably not a ton. Uh. You know, the 'cause the Panama invasion was not at the scale.

We really overwhelmed pan operation just cause 

[00:31:03] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:31:03] General Anderson: From lessons learned before, like the Iranian rescue, the rescue Hostage rescue mission mm-hmm. Disaster. Uh, the Powell Doctrine of Dominate. And so just cause was such a huge amount of forces that piled on that poor little tiny central American country and there, and there was no doubt an GS or butts that that was gonna be over with in a ma in a matter of minutes.

Mm-hmm. Because it was just like desert Storm. But it was, it was just such, it was such a massive boom boom. Mm-hmm. Iraq, Iraq was a long drawn out, so the, so the war fighting stuff, there wasn't on that particular sense. I think all my training and experience and all that from a lessons learned perspective, does artillery matter?

Yes. Does firepower matter? Mm-hmm. Does, does the mass, the ability to maneuver, having, to having, when you're a light guy. Light infantry guy having tanks over your shoulder matter. Yes, it does. All the things that we'd always been taught and trained and, you know, uh, what, what, what, uh, what you get from air power, from, from Apaches and all those wonderful things.

So that, that, that wasn't the issue. It goes back to what we were just talking about. What the, what your take away, what you're not prepared to do is to come in, well, you asked me about, about getting the warlords together. Mm-hmm. You know, running elections, you know, changing out cash. You know, we took the whole dnar, you know, everybody had to go bring their money and there were lines down the street like a food bank mm-hmm.

Taking their old dnar and they'd dip 'em in this purple ink mm-hmm. Where the d that that dollar bill or that, that dnar no longer had any value. Mm-hmm. And then they would hand them a bundle of, of, of new cash, you know, and, and, and, and so the criminals and guys trying to, people trying to rob, you know, things you're not prepared for, things like that.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:42] General Anderson: You, you're just, you're just not, you're know, which was one of our most horrific, that's, that was one of our biggest casualty days because we had the, we had the quick reaction force in the air and a black hawk, and they were circling over a bank that was, they were getting ready to touch down because they, the bank was getting robbed.

[00:32:57] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:58] General Anderson: And another, and this was early in the evening, and another helicopter was coming down the Tigris River, transporting. So back then, only certain people got to go on r and r. They, uh, leave based on if they'd, if they'd come back from an over unaccomp tour in Korea or, or for, if their spouse was expecting or something.

There were certain reasons that got certain people to go home, but very, but very few people got to go home that first year. Then, then the program got stood up and you got, you got to go home two weeks if you were there for a year anyway, that, that helicopter was coming down. The river wasn't supposed to be there.

Didn't the, the two of them. For whatever reasons didn't, radar wise, whatever, didn't pick it up and, and collided in midair over that, over that building. 

[00:33:40] Christa Schroeder: Mm. 

[00:33:40] General Anderson: So it was a horrific night. So one, one helicopter blew into a wall and just totally disintegrated. The other one came down on top of a building and broke half, like a, a pretzel, half of a dangling off the building and the other tower on fire and et cetera, et cetera.

So, so thing, things like that you're not quite, uh, prepared for. Prepared for. Right, 

[00:33:59] Richard: right. I've always wondered, you know, obviously now we use AI tools like Palantir to go through scenarios. What if scenarios prior to engaging combat? And it must be, you know, similar to a mergers and acquisitions deal where you prepare the front side to acquire the company and you go through due diligence and you figure out, you know, here's our targets, here's the reasons why.

Um, here's our assets. This is what we plan to do with the assets after we capture them or acquire them in, in that degree. But it always seems to be most of the effort of success or failure happens during transition. Mm-hmm. You know, after the deal's done or after combat has ceased. Right. Um, you know, can you compare contrast to where the army is today, whereas where it was before on how did they prepare to the transition to do the nation building?

[00:34:57] General Anderson: Yep. Yep. 

[00:34:58] Richard: And operating after they completed their objective. 

[00:35:01] General Anderson: It is like an m and a. It's, it, it, it's hard. Yeah. So, lesson learned there, which I, I, and I do take primarily from my Iraq experience and used to fight with the embassy in Afghanistan, you have to have a joint campaign plan. So inevitably 

[00:35:14] Christa Schroeder: mm-hmm.

[00:35:15] General Anderson: You know, military leaves and civilian control resumes. Right. That isn't, isn't that kind of the way the world's supposed to work? 

[00:35:20] Christa Schroeder: Right. 

[00:35:21] General Anderson: So there needs to be a plan. So we did develop, we, we had a phenomenal, one of the, one of the highlights of transitioning outta Iraq was having a joint campaign plan written between us.

The military guys in the, in the embassy downtown. We brought in an ex an external team of about 12 experts of all kinds, political, economic, et cetera, uh, to come in and tear the plant apart and review it. And then we, then we developed, uh, four lines of effort. I think I'm gonna remember 'em all. One was, one was security, one was rule of law, one was economic, and one was on the fourth.

The fourth one, I'm gonna draw a blank, but we, we bend all those and we took all the tasks that were in the campaign. There were hundreds of them and, and, and pinned them all against one of those four lines of effort. 

[00:36:11] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:12] General Anderson: And then we had a, a, a weekly meeting on Sunday nights at the embassy. I chaired the military side, the deputy chief of mission chaired the embassy side with all, and, and every week we rotated.

So once a month we hit each, each of those. Lines. Mm-hmm. So first Sunday would be security. Second would be rule of law. Third would be, uh, economics. And then, I'm sorry, I don't know where the fourth was drawn. I'm drawing a blank. So we would go through and we just started, so what tasks were going to stay?

[00:36:40] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:40] General Anderson: Which means somebody had to take over if it was gonna stay, was it gonna stay in full or was it gonna get trimmed? Was it gonna be changed? Mm-hmm. But still be a task, but modified or killed off the table. 

[00:36:53] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:53] General Anderson: So we would go through and then we would start assessing based on what the decision was about what had to be done.

[00:36:59] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:00] General Anderson: How, and how that progress was over time based on what U-S-A-I-D was doing, or, you know, IINL for example, was in there training all the cops. Mm-hmm. When was, when was the cops training done? When, when was the court back in? When was the court back in place? Where were the judges? 

[00:37:13] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:14] General Anderson: You know, was the judiciary separate from the Prime Minister, et cetera?

All so all so that, so you're right. So you have to have a game plan for that. 'cause eventually, eventually you are gonna go one way. Or if, if, if it's, if it's run out of Afghanistan like we did. Or you're gonna phase out like we did in Iraq, only to go back and fight again. 

[00:37:29] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:30] General Anderson: But one way or another, you're leaving.

So you have, but if you don't have a plan, so I got to Afghanistan. I said, where's the joint campaign plan? 'cause I got there in January, the election was in April. 

[00:37:38] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:39] General Anderson: They, they moved us up because they realized they were gonna change out the headquarters in the middle of the election. So they shifted our, they moved our deployment to the left.

Mm-hmm. And so I'm walking in right when this stuff's all about to happen and say, and then we knew we were leaving. The administration had announced we were drawn down. So I said, where's the plan? We don't have one. 

[00:37:56] Richard: Mm. 

[00:37:57] General Anderson: But I couldn't convince, I couldn't convince them to change. And, and I wasn't the four star headquarters there.

I was the three star headquarters there. So my job is to shut my mouth and worry about what's going on in the ground, which I did. 

[00:38:08] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:10] General Anderson: It doesn't mean I liked it, but I, but that's just the way it was. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and that was, that was unfortunate, so. 

[00:38:14] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:15] General Anderson: It worked. It, it, that process worked very well in Iraq.

[00:38:18] Richard: Was there a reason why we didn't have a plan for Afghanistan, or, 

[00:38:21] General Anderson: I think they thought they knew. I, I, I'm gonna have to assume that was either arrogance or ignorance. Uh. I talked to the ambassador about it multiple times and he, we just didn't see eye to eye. 

[00:38:30] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:31] General Anderson: And I gave up. 

[00:38:32] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:38:33] General Anderson: I knew, I knew I had to figure out something.

So we, in the part I had to worry about in the transitioning of the bases and the Afghan army, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We, we had our, we, we made our own game plan in the end. 'cause you had to, like you said, you had to have something. 

[00:38:45] Richard: Right. 

[00:38:46] General Anderson: And we did. 

[00:38:47] Richard: With you being the leader in an environment where you had multicultural, um, communities, you know, very diverse, um, individuals from multiple languages, from multiple religions, from, you know, um, how did you build unity in that type of environment, you know, in that building with diverse teams?

[00:39:07] General Anderson: Respect, treat people with respect. 

[00:39:11] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:12] General Anderson: So my predecessor never even for the whole 10 months he was there, never even went and saw, for example, the Italians out in a rot. 

[00:39:19] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:20] General Anderson: Never went out there and visited that camp and spent time and walked with those troops. Hell, I went out there and flew their helicopter, shot their guns, did whatever, went, went and met with the police chief with 'em, and went with the Army Corps commander out there, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So I, and I've rotated, just like I talked to you about in Iraq, my own forces. Mm-hmm. This time I just, I had a rhythm that, you know, the Germans were up north, the Italians were out west, the Turks were in the capitol with me. Right. Their headquarters was right down the, mm-hmm. Right down the street, literally right down the street on the base from where I was.

Uh, uh, and just treated them and actually tried to spend more time with them and the Marines, because I also had Marines. 

[00:39:57] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:57] General Anderson: Uh, and didn't so much worry about the American division. Not, it's not that I didn't, it's not that I ignored the Americans, but that wasn't my, I had, I had able commanders there who I knew.

Yeah. I knew very well. Yeah. We all served together. We, you know, and, and, and in one case, they came from my core anyway, so obviously I knew the unit, so I wasn't worried. I wasn't worried about them. I just wanted to make sure all the others felt. 'cause it was very weird when I went, you know, you do, you do a thing called a pre-deployment site survey?

A-P-D-S-S. So when I was there in December of 13, before taking over in January 14, every time I, you got, you got two of those before you deployed. One was in the summer and one was right before. And so I, I, I said I want to go see the Italians. I didn't want to go see, I went to the Germans the first time.

Mm-hmm. And I went to the Italians. So the, so the guy that was the commander in front of me before me said, I'll go with you. 

[00:40:46] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:46] General Anderson: And so it was a very bizarre conversation. We, this, this was, uh, we went over on a C one 30 when we landed and come down the stairs. And the Italian general says to him, well, it's nice to, it's nice to see you, general X.

And I said, wow, you guys have been together for, at that 0.9 months and you, you've never come out here and seen this guy. 

[00:41:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:05] General Anderson: Kind of spoke volumes. 

[00:41:07] Richard: Absolutely. And we see that in the corporate world as well. When leadership fails to. Go walk the line, you know, where the employees are or, or servicing the customers.

[00:41:17] General Anderson: Right, right. 

[00:41:18] Richard: It's almost as if they forget. Yep. You know, while we do the business and, and you know, less focus on the spreadsheets. 

[00:41:24] General Anderson: Well, customer success is kind of important in my book. 

[00:41:26] Richard: So, so after leading combat you were, did you transition more into the back office? I guess I did. I did. At that point you were stationed at Fort Bragg and you ran operations there?

[00:41:38] General Anderson: No, when I got back, so when I got back from there is when I got moved to the Pentagon. 

[00:41:41] Richard: Oh, okay. 

[00:41:42] General Anderson: Then I became the G 3 57, which is ops plans and training. So again, the biggest, the biggest section in the Pentagon, 

[00:41:48] Richard: G three 

[00:41:48] General Anderson: 1300 people, uh, with responsibilities for everything from four structure, the special operations to aviation, to two training, two war plans, uh, uh, weight.

We're the only service that puts all three of those on one guise. Shoulder. 

[00:42:04] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:04] General Anderson: Most services do two, 

[00:42:06] Richard: right. 

[00:42:06] General Anderson: They do the three and the five part, they don't do the seven part. 

[00:42:09] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:10] General Anderson: So, uh, a, you know, a huge enterprise, uh, horrific schedule, horrific amount of responsibility, uh, in a horrific environment.

[00:42:22] Richard: Yeah. I can only imagine. 

[00:42:23] General Anderson: It was horrible. 

[00:42:24] Richard: And how many years did you serve that? 

[00:42:25] General Anderson: I did it. I, I'm the only person that's ever done that job for four years. 

[00:42:28] Richard: Four, 

[00:42:29] General Anderson: four years. 

[00:42:30] Richard: And the average is what? 

[00:42:31] General Anderson: Two, 

[00:42:31] Richard: two 

[00:42:32] General Anderson: or less? 

[00:42:33] Richard: Yeah. And that's before you retired? 

[00:42:35] General Anderson: That's right. Before I retired. It, it, it, it, it greatly contributed to my retirement.

[00:42:39] Richard: Right. 

[00:42:40] General Anderson: When I had a disloyal member and my staff tried to take me down, he, he succeeded stalling me. Mm-hmm. But by the time I got through that, uh, they offered me to go on again. And I, at that point, I, I had lost faith in the institution. 

[00:42:52] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:52] General Anderson: Because I don't believe, I didn't, I didn't, people believed, uh uh.

Somebody with a very horrible reputation over me. And, and that, and that's the problem with the military. Anybody can come after you. 

[00:43:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:03] General Anderson: For a variety of reasons, be it jealousy or whatever, in this case, vengeance for not getting promoted. And, uh, you know, so le leveraging a whole bunch of charges against me.

[00:43:12] Richard: Hmm. 

[00:43:13] General Anderson: All to be disproven, but took 210 days. So it's like a cloud over your head. 

[00:43:17] Richard: Right. 

[00:43:18] General Anderson: You're trying to do your job. You're trying to, but you don't know. You don't know what your, what, what the outcome of this is gonna be. 'cause anytime you dig, the deeper you dig, you're gonna fi you're gonna find something.

[00:43:27] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:28] General Anderson: Thankfully there was nothing, but I had to defend a whole bunch of things that were just not true. And by the time I got done with that, I said this is enough. 

[00:43:36] Richard: Mm-hmm. Well, compared to where the army is today, whereas bef prior, before you, you left service, um, how do you feel, how things are are working now?

[00:43:49] General Anderson: Well, all I hear Richard, is lots of, I. What I hear is lots of bad things. Doesn't mean there aren't ought still a lot of good people out there, but mm-hmm. I think if I was to, I don't wanna offend some of my friends, but I think because a lot of the policy, obviously all that DEI stuff did take, have impact.

[00:44:05] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:06] General Anderson: There's no, there's no doubt about it. Where, where standards change and, and, and it caused problems with, uh, leaders being able to do their job. Because if you're trying to hold somebody accountable, the first thing that, back to what I'm talking about what happened to me mm-hmm. All of a, someone, someone's saying, well, you're picking on me because I'm a minority, I'm a female.

Hey, get your hands outta your pocket. 

[00:44:22] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:23] General Anderson: Well, you're, you're picking on me because I'm a woman. Well, no, we don't put our hands in our pockets. 

[00:44:27] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:28] General Anderson: But it got a little bit crazy in my opinion on that. And I think it caused, and and you're seeing it now, you, so there's, there's two kinds of, when I say I'm gonna be specific on this one, there's two kinds of generals.

The ones that do something and the ones that just try to ride along and get promoted. 

[00:44:41] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:42] General Anderson: So the ones that are outspoken and try and actually change behavior and try and make us better and make us a more disciplined, capable force are fewer and fewer and fewer because the more vocal. The more vocal, outspoken you are, they're the ones that the leadership doesn't care for.

Mm-hmm. So if you don't tote the line, so to speak, and so if you, so if you're a bunch of guys that sit around and admire the problem, but aren't gonna do anything about it, 'cause you don't want to, you don't wanna raise a flag, that's kind of, that's kind of what's left. Mm-hmm. In a lot of cases, not all cases.

[00:45:10] Richard: Mm. 

[00:45:11] General Anderson: In the case of the Army, there are two very fine men there who both work for me, the General George and General Mingus, the chair, the chief, and the vice. Two, you wouldn't find two better guys. So it's, I'm not, I'm not saying there, that's not the case mm-hmm. Across the board. But I, generally speaking, I think there's been a, there's been a, a little bit of that going on.

[00:45:29] Richard: Mm-hmm. Have you been impressed with their adoption of AI with Palantir and using firms like and Andrew to do some innovative Yeah. Like the goggles and, and other technology? 

[00:45:40] General Anderson: No, pal. We, we just started engaging Palantir when I came into the building. 

[00:45:43] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:44] General Anderson: I actually helped get Palantir in the building.

Uh, back then there were. There were challenges in defining what exactly you wanted AI to do and for what reason. 

[00:45:54] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:54] General Anderson: And, and, and when I, so when I first visited Palantir over in Georgetown, brilliant people, uh, brilliant people, but it was a bunch. They kept throwing data upon data upon data on the wall in front of me.

And I finally said, I don't, you're overwhelming me with data, but what decisions am I gonna be able to make based on what you're 

[00:46:14] Christa Schroeder: mm-hmm. 

[00:46:14] General Anderson: Presenting with me. And I said, here's, so here's how my brain is thinking. If you can help, if you can, we were, we were building a dashboard at that time that we we're trying to build a, again, a common picture if, if you wanted to know how many trucks were down.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:25] Richard: And 

[00:46:26] General Anderson: the second battalion of the five oh fifth down here at Fort Bragg, you could hit a button and there'd say, 10 truck, 10 trucks are broken because of axles or wheels or, or tires or whatever. So that's what we were trying to get to. But, but there was so much stuff that they were trying to manipulate that at the end of the day, it wasn't really gonna help make you any more capable.

To make informed decisions. 

[00:46:46] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:46] General Anderson: That got that evolved over time. You know, uh, ai, my sensing now, 'cause I'm in that business on the s and I work with a couple very powerful companies that deal with it. Mm-hmm. Uh, now it's the fear of what you want it to do or not to do. Mm-hmm. And it, and it all boils down to all things autonomous.

It's the same challenge. What do you want humans not to, when do you want a machine to be able to make a decision that a human used to make? 

[00:47:12] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:13] General Anderson: And then, and what things require either a human on the loop or in the loop. 

[00:47:18] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:19] General Anderson: And I, and I'm just, I'm watching them, uh, I'm watching them struggle with that routinely.

[00:47:23] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:25] General Anderson: Because it really requires guys like the Justin we had in this course that can explain to people what exactly you could. What it can do for you. And the more, in the case of the Department of Defense at Writ Law is not just the Army could be better educated about what the opportunities actually are.

[00:47:41] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:41] General Anderson: I work for a, I work for an AI company. It's a virtual reality goggle now the Goggle company, it's not the goggle itself, it's what's, it's the software in the goggle mm-hmm. That does everything to teach you how to, to do your gunnery before you go into a simulator. It's got first aid, uh, scenarios.

It's got how to change a, how to change a, uh, engine out of a tank. Mm-hmm. Uh, how, how to fly a helicopter and, and the amount of, and the, and, and, and it, and it has a, uh, men used for things like suicide and sexual harassment, assault, where it puts you into an actual, you put the goggle out looking at a guy in there that, that, that looks just like you look like, I mean, right now, but it's a, in this case, it's, it's a troubled guy who's going through a divorce.

He's got a drinking problem, he's got money problems, and, and your job is to, you're actually talking to him. 

[00:48:24] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:24] General Anderson: So it's not a, it's not going into a classroom like we did for all these years and saying, I'm gonna show you eight slides for an hour, and suicide's gonna stop. And obviously it only got worse.

So that's, obviously, that's a failed model. This thing you put on is 13 minutes long, and it scores you based on the responses you give to him. When he says he doesn't want to go see a chaplain, he want, or he, he wants you to leave the house or all, and, and of course the whole goal is that, you know, is getting him the care he needs, not leaving him alone, et cetera, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. So based on what choices you make, he'll say something, it's got a menu that says A, B, C, D gives you four choices to answer you. Mm-hmm. You, you, I forget. You click or do something, which, however, you click the button and then at the end of the day it tells you, okay, you just, you screwed up because you, you left him alone for the night and that wasn't a good idea.

[00:49:08] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:09] General Anderson: For example. So, so things like that are powerful and when you, and when you see that kind of training, and you can do that time and time again, you can do it indoors, outdoors, you can do it anywhere you want as often as you want. Doesn't the cost is buying the license for the software. 

[00:49:23] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:24] General Anderson: But that's it.

So, so they've cut the, they've cut the, they've cut the flight school training from the Navy by two weeks. 

[00:49:29] Richard: Wow. 

[00:49:30] General Anderson: That's significant return on investment. 

[00:49:32] Richard: Yeah. So they're training the pilots. 

[00:49:34] General Anderson: Yeah, they are. 

[00:49:34] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:49:35] General Anderson: No, they do pilot training. Yeah. But they've cut, they, the navy's actually cut their pilot training by two weeks.

[00:49:40] Richard: Yeah. That's, that's amazing return. 

[00:49:41] General Anderson: And so, so, so telling that, so when you say, how do you help, when you say how are they doing? So you, so then you, you obviously tell people, you show the, you show that on paper 

[00:49:49] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:49:50] General Anderson: And you say, this is what it did, and there's other, other examples. And then, and then to sit there and go, that sounds great, but, you know, and not, and not change anything.

[00:49:56] Richard: Right. 

[00:49:57] General Anderson: When the, when the, when, how much we spend on and how time we keep people in school when you can do it at a much more cost effective. 

[00:50:02] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:03] General Anderson: And in the case of suicide prevention, efficient. You're actually having a conversation with somebody, which I, it just, it put it, put it, put goosebumps on it.

It, it, it, it's so real. 

[00:50:13] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:50:13] General Anderson: When you take the goggles off, it, it, it, it, it, it like freaks you out. 

[00:50:17] Richard: Right. 

[00:50:18] General Anderson: That's powerful. That's, that's, that is powerful training 

[00:50:20] Richard: with the rise of AI and technology and innovation like VR goggles and, and things that you just described, what does the future battlefield look like if you look out, you know, five, 10 years from now and does it, is it full of robots and drones or lasers or what are we 

[00:50:36] General Anderson: all Well, all the above.

I mean, so, and I, and, and, and the danger of is you watch Ukraine. Is Ukraine gonna depict what's gonna happen everywhere else? No. 

[00:50:44] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:44] General Anderson: But pieces, parts from, again, right off with your, your drone comment. Right. With the Swan Swarm drone technology. Mm-hmm. That's clearly gonna be a different battlefield, you know, with the Army talking about it.

I was talking to, uh. The drone company that we had in this class, and I was telling the, the comment where the army says, well, we're gonna start replacing units with drones. Mm-hmm. Uh, that sounds maybe nice in theory, but not very practical at the end. I mean, will robots replace humans? In many cases, they are they starting to?

Yes. Mm-hmm. And, and how the army builds these formations where it's all, how do you fit together these different capabilities from an autonomous, uh, to a drone? Uh, but, but at the end of the day, combat, combat, basic maneuver, combat's gonna require boots on the ground. 

[00:51:34] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:34] General Anderson: That's not gonna change. Now, now numbers may be different 

[00:51:37] Richard: mm-hmm.

[00:51:38] General Anderson: And something that a drone can take out. But everything, everything you just said, laser. And I just, I would just say watch as this golden dome, noble dome for America gets put together everything from space-based solutions 

[00:51:49] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:51:49] General Anderson: To maritime ground, et cetera. Sub subsurface, uh, from a radar, from a laser.

From a sensor, you know, et cetera. How that all gets collaged, which is kind of what join all domain operations is anyway, but now you're taking it, which is, is all three domains plus cyber and space. 

[00:52:07] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:08] General Anderson: Uh, now it's gonna be very complicated, rapid back to the information piece where 

[00:52:13] Richard: mm-hmm. I, 

[00:52:15] General Anderson: the what whatever AI can do to enable platforms is wonderful.

But back to what I just said a little while ago mm-hmm. AI could really help commit when you're on that kind of a battlefield. 

[00:52:23] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:25] General Anderson: The intensity, the volume of information you have to, and again, what's, what's information versus intelligence. Mm-hmm. What's actionable now versus what's actionable tomorrow, what's too late?

What helps you be predictive 

[00:52:37] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:52:38] General Anderson: Et cetera. Uh, ways that AI can help process that for commanders, first and foremost would be at the top of, would be at the top of my list and help me see through this clutter. 

[00:52:48] Richard: Right. 

[00:52:49] General Anderson: So I, and, and help me. Help, help me, help tell me what it means. 

[00:52:52] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:53] General Anderson: And then put it in some kind of a time.

I understand how, again, how critical time sensitive is this. Mm-hmm. Or not, but what if I don't, if I don't decide this now, what? 

[00:53:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:04] General Anderson: And if I, and if I had two choices, what do you recommend 

[00:53:08] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:53:09] General Anderson: And anything that could help you think through that complicated battlefield that you're describing 

[00:53:13] Richard: mm-hmm.

[00:53:13] General Anderson: Would be a, would be awesome. Let, let, let alone, let alone what, what will enable, again, platforms to do things on their own. 

[00:53:20] Richard: Right. 

[00:53:20] General Anderson: That, that would put that a very close second. 

[00:53:23] Richard: Right. Remember a while back we had dinner with a gentleman, Sebastian Clause mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. From Germany. 

[00:53:29] General Anderson: Yep. 

[00:53:30] Richard: And he was describing technology that would allow you to take a payload, run it to space, and keep it up there for a period of time, and then have it strategically deployed.

Plopped 

[00:53:41] General Anderson: down, 

[00:53:42] Richard: plopped down. Yep. Yep. Plopped down. Um, is that realistic in today's, 

[00:53:49] General Anderson: you know, I was rather intrigued about it. I, I.

I, I think so. Uh, and I think the folks that work out in the Indo Paycom Theater, I think is what I told 'em at that dinner. Correct. Would be un, un unlike Eastern Europe 

[00:54:04] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:54:04] General Anderson: The folks out in the Indo-Pacific Theater where you got all these island chains and huge distances and limited, you know, limited options to get in.

Mm-hmm. I think in that kind of a scenario, it would be a, a phenomenal solution. 

[00:54:17] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:17] General Anderson: But the co uh, again, what this thing looks like, what the payload could actually be, 

[00:54:22] Richard: right. 

[00:54:23] General Anderson: What it costs to op, what it costs to operate it are, are like three things off the top of my head that, that I have concerns about.

[00:54:31] Richard: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:54:32] General Anderson: But it, it sounds like a cool, uh. Flintstones or something like that. I dunno what, who, no, who's the family up in space? What, what, what? Oh, the Jetsons. Jet Jetson. I'm sorry, I got the wrong family. Yeah, the Jetsons. That's a cool, it's a cool Jetson one. Right. And f Flintstones are rocks, right?

They're they're clubs, that's right. They're clubs and rocks. 

[00:54:47] Richard: Yes. 

[00:54:47] General Anderson: There's no AI there. No, no. But the Jetson, the Jetsons have ai. Yeah. 

[00:54:51] Richard: But at a minimum, do you see a company like SpaceX, for example? Uh, maybe doing military logistics? Oh, I do. 

[00:54:57] General Anderson: I do. 

[00:54:58] Richard: Moving materials from one area to another quicker, faster.

[00:55:01] General Anderson: There's no way around it, 

[00:55:01] Richard: I don't 

[00:55:02] General Anderson: believe. 

[00:55:02] Richard: Yeah, it's interesting how, how things are evolving. 

[00:55:05] General Anderson: It is. 

[00:55:06] Richard: You mentioned, um, Ukraine, and if, if you don't mind, I want to get your opinion on, uh, you know, Russia and China and adversarial relations and how things are moving forward. Like, where do you see the future, uh, with, uh, with those two countries in particular?

[00:55:24] General Anderson: Yeah. Well, they're two different animals. So, uh, I, you know, the, the Russia. Should be the simpler scenario just by cutting him off a hundred, not doing things halfway, doing things all the way, you know, and kind of how we kind of, how we plused up Ukraine piece by piece, by piece, by piece by piece. But never really gave him the sledgehammer.

[00:55:44] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:45] General Anderson: You know, and to have any debate in my mind, you know, if one country is attack, killing innocent civilians and another every day routinely for all this time now, and not say we're gonna give the capability to u for Ukraine to reach out and touch them, I think is a, a crazy conversation. 

[00:56:02] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:02] General Anderson: I mean, so 'cause the, the goal of the end state, there should be again, let, let, let, let, let the country that had territorial integrity have it back.

I know that, I know there's all the claims of ethnicity and, you know, it's, it's, they're not, I'm taking care of my Russian people and mm-hmm. Blah, blah, blah. But again, I, that's all, you know, PSYOPs. 

[00:56:21] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:21] General Anderson: You know, so, uh, uh, but getting him back in the box, obviously he's been tougher than that, but, uh. The same on the NATO approacher that you're hearing lately.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's clear that it has emboldened nato. So my, again, I don't have a crystal ball. Uh, my only hope is that NATO remains emboldened stronger, better off based on commitments, contributions. Mm-hmm. Et cetera. You know, and I, and I agree with the NATO countries, if, if, if, if a Russian thing flies into my territory, I'd be the first one to shoot it down.

[00:56:50] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:52] General Anderson: And again, this, this, this is all territorial integrity, you know? Right. And I think every, any, any sovereign nation has the right to, to protect itself, defend itself. So I think if, if every, if collaboratively, they would all decide that. I think, I think at the end of the day, based on the Russian population, the Russian economy 

[00:57:07] Richard: mm-hmm.

[00:57:07] General Anderson: The neighborhood, you know, and what little, what little he has left, uh, to hold hands with is, you know. In a very fragile space. 

[00:57:16] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:16] General Anderson: But, but it has certainly lasted a lot longer than I, I I know time. I know time does not phase him and 

[00:57:21] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[00:57:21] General Anderson: Uh, he's in no hurry to get what he wants. Mm-hmm. He'll, he'll, he'll last us all out.

So, uh, so how, so how, why delay on anything that could help, that could help get that thing to an end, you know, you know, and, and, uh, the, uh, on the flip side though is that, you know, the China, and we'll see how well today's Thursday, right, how successful this thing goes in South Korea today, uh, if we can come to grips, uh, but obviously again, militarizing in the Pacific and, and building, you know, making your own islands and, you know, and all the, and all the, you know, aggressive, I guess would be a word you could use.

But again, you're, you're, you're, you're stepping when you're talking about international orders and, and, and violating the, the agreements that we live by, uh, going unchecked doesn't make, doesn't make sense. Mm-hmm. And then back to your comment about, you know, from a much more sophisticated nation. When we used to say peer, ear, peer, but when, when you talk about all things AI and cyber and things like that, when mm-hmm.

When we're being beat, we're, when we're, when we're the, we're the second, we're, we're not number one, we're number two. 

[00:58:23] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:24] General Anderson: How long do, how long do you keep playing that game and letting that, letting that roll out because 

[00:58:28] Richard: Right. 

[00:58:29] General Anderson: Is playing, playing catch up is very difficult. 

[00:58:31] Richard: Right. 

[00:58:32] General Anderson: You know, so how they've been, they, they've been able to play a whole different game.

[00:58:35] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:58:36] General Anderson: But again, not without economic struggles and, you know, human rights violations and all that kind of stuff too. So, you know, it, so it's a, it's, it's a, it's a little murky and then, you know, and then via the North Korea stuff as well. So, you know, it, it, it's, it's, uh, it gets complicated, you know, 

[00:58:50] Richard: is it, is it in America's best interest to assist Ukraine, uh, against what's happening with Russia since.

I mean, I know they were part of the USSR back in the day and they broke off on their independence. So did the country of Georgia. Mm-hmm. And a few others. Many Lithuania, 

[00:59:06] General Anderson: Roman, Bulgaria or Romania. 

[00:59:07] Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Um, 

[00:59:08] General Anderson: Czech Republic, 

[00:59:09] Richard: should we be investing, I guess you can say, money, US taxpayer money into foreign policy that helps enable countries to defend itself?

Uh, or would you, are you on more of the side of allowing the chips fall where they may and, and, uh, what is your thought on that? Uh, 

[00:59:27] General Anderson: no, I, I, I mean from a, they're not a NATO member, obviously. 

[00:59:32] Richard: Correct. 

[00:59:32] General Anderson: Although, although by all intent and through all intent and purpose, NATO's kind of treating them as such 

[00:59:38] Richard: mm-hmm.

[00:59:38] General Anderson: Safe to say, I think, but 

[00:59:39] Richard: Well, everything from rallying the troops to defend them. 

[00:59:42] General Anderson: Right, right, right, right, right. That's, that's the, that's, that's right. Except, except for boots. 

[00:59:47] Richard: Yeah. 

[00:59:47] General Anderson: Uh, I think the big, the issue's big, the issue in my mind is bigger than Ukraine. 'cause there's no, for all those years that I was, when I was in the Pentagon, we were working very hard to make sure Russia wouldn't do this in the first place.

Atlantic, the big operations we were doing, he's got those spot exercises. He does, we did Atlantic Resolve and you're basically watching each other across the border. Mm-hmm. And you're watching jets go and planes go and, uh, troops jump and march and shoot and tanks roll and all. So we, we, we, we were building up a pretty good presence.

Uh, and then we built that. There is that, there is that alignment that we have between the Baltics and Poland. 

[01:00:21] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:21] General Anderson: Uh, the enhanced forward presence mission with the Brits, with the Germans, with the Canadians and us as lead nations. Mm-hmm. With the contingents. Uh, the problem, I think Richard is not Ukraine per se.

I think helping Ukraine is the right thing to do. The question would become, if, if, if, if Putin had run through Ukraine, what next? 

[01:00:40] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:40] General Anderson: Where next? And I assume it would be up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. And so that fear is always so 

[01:00:47] Richard: yeah. 

[01:00:47] General Anderson: If we didn't do anything to help them 

[01:00:49] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:00:50] General Anderson: Uh, I'm afraid who knows where he'd, who, who knows where that could have been by now.

[01:00:54] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:54] General Anderson: Had we, had we and others not done that. So that, so it's bigger, in my mind, it's bigger than Ukraine. 

[01:00:59] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:59] General Anderson: And it is about Russia and it's about him going unchecked. If he was allowed to go unchecked, he'd just 

[01:01:04] Richard: keep going. 

[01:01:04] General Anderson: He, he'd just keep going and, and going and get, and 

[01:01:06] Richard: then pick a fight with 

[01:01:07] General Anderson: him though.

Right. And then get into, and then, you know, and then you get the fin looking at him across, you know, across the way. Yeah. You know, so who don't like them at all, so, so it, it, I'm not sure how that would've played. Yeah. But I think if we, uh, I think the right thing to do there was to 

[01:01:21] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:01:23] General Anderson: Help them defend themselves.

[01:01:24] Richard: In my mind, it, it appears that both Russia and China have become more aggressive, you know, say over the last five, 10 years prior to the last five, 10 years. For 

[01:01:33] General Anderson: sure. For sure. 

[01:01:35] Richard: Um. Why do you think that is? Is it because their population's declining? Are they trying to be more aggressive? Is it the fact that they have more confidence, the fact that they've got control of rare, you know, the majority of the rare, rare metals?

Uh, what, what's, what, what do you think is, is playing that? 

[01:01:50] General Anderson: I, I I think it boils down to nothing. I, I think nothing more complicated from being a, a regional king of the hill. 

[01:01:59] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:59] General Anderson: They're trying to be more of a global 

[01:02:01] Richard: Okay. 

[01:02:02] General Anderson: Power. So, uh, I, and I think what drives most of that, at least on the Putin side, is ego, but wanting to be what they once were mm-hmm.

And be considered one of the two superpowers. 

[01:02:14] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:15] General Anderson: And China is aspiring in that same direction, except they have a lot longer roadmap. Mm-hmm. They, they have a much more, obviously they haven't invaded anybody. They have a much more. Logical, methodical timeline. Mm-hmm. What do I mean? Modernizing their forces, how they train, what they're building, how they're equipping, and they, and they have a plan of that out through 2035.

[01:02:40] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:41] General Anderson: To achieve the same goal 

[01:02:42] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:02:42] General Anderson: But in a whole different way by amassing it all, not expending it all. 

[01:02:46] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:47] General Anderson: And, and consolidating your resources differently 

[01:02:50] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:02:50] General Anderson: And your technology and your engineering and your, and your, you know, r and d and all that kind of stuff, uh, to accomplish the same goal.

[01:02:58] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:59] General Anderson: And I, that that's what drives, uh, that's what drives, I think, most of it, if not all of it. 

[01:03:04] Richard: Right. 

[01:03:05] General Anderson: I mean, again, access to re access to resources, et cetera. Of course, everybody back to your. Minerals and oil and gas and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, in the case of Putin access 

[01:03:17] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:03:17] General Anderson: You know, ports, et cetera.

I mean, there's a, there's, there's a, there are a lot of second, third order stuff that they're gonna achieve mm-hmm. Through this. Mm-hmm. But at the end of the day, it's about being a, a respected guy. Uh, and you kind of become a bully. 

[01:03:30] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:30] General Anderson: And you kind of get what you want. 

[01:03:32] Richard: Right. What are some of the thoughts as these new officers enter military service, uh, given the fact that we have new technology and disruption of, of, um, how things used to be versus where there are today and, and, and evolving geopolitical tensions, what are some of the lessons learned that you would give some of these officers as they enter service?

[01:03:54] General Anderson: Well, they gotta come in. I, I think the bigger difference is you gotta come in a little bit more bright-eyed and bushy tailed now than when I did so. So to your, and they, and they're coming in, you know, these, these are folks that are gamers and no mach, no tech, no technologies and machines from everything from what a, what a phone can do today.

Mm-hmm. To a, you know, to a box. So I, I, so they know a joystick more than I ever knew. Mm-hmm. A joystick. So I think, I think what they have to come in is and be, be a lot more, technology's gonna drive the game a lot more than it probably ever has. 

[01:04:26] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:26] General Anderson: I mean, capability has always told us what we could do, but the technology wasn't necessarily, it was, it's what, it's what the soldier could do with that particular weapon.

[01:04:34] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:34] General Anderson: Or sensor or whatever in their hands. Now it's gonna be, as we talked about, it's gonna be devices, it's gonna be a, a whole different bunch of platforms. There's gonna be less tanks, but more drones. 

[01:04:45] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:45] General Anderson: You know, there's gonna be less bullets and more lasers. So what, what does that fight look like and how does that affect spectrums?

How does that affect networks? How does that affect. You know, as we used to say collateral da, what, what ma what's collateral? What makes the collateral damage of a laser 

[01:05:01] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:05:01] General Anderson: Different than a 5, 5 6 or a 7 6 2 or, or a 50 cal. 

[01:05:05] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:06] General Anderson: Big, big. So the considerations and the differences are huge. 

[01:05:10] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:10] General Anderson: You know, deny, again, GPS denied environments, you know, et cetera.

So, uh, I, I, they gotta be smart, that's for sure. They gotta be adaptable, that's for sure. But they're gonna have to be a lot more agile 

[01:05:21] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:05:22] General Anderson: Based on what this battlefield's gonna look like. 

[01:05:25] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:25] General Anderson: Lit, I mean, literally from every aspect. 

[01:05:27] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:28] General Anderson: From every aspect, how you get there, how you survive, how you fight 

[01:05:33] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:05:34] General Anderson: Et cetera. From logistics to intelligence, to fires and maneuver. 

[01:05:39] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:40] General Anderson: Command and control. 

[01:05:41] Richard: It's gonna be interesting to see how it 

[01:05:42] General Anderson: comes. Well, you gotta, you gotta be on your, you know, you gotta be on your game. But I, but it's, but it, but comp, I think the, I think the key word is there's no doubt it's gonna be much more.

Complicated, complex, complicated 

[01:05:53] Richard: for sure. Yeah. I imagine the culture has to shift to keep up with those changes 

[01:05:56] General Anderson: as well. Yes, yes, yes. No, and I mean, and it'll be a model that we haven't had before. So I, you know, so what does that mean in the schoolhouse? What does that mean in a training center? Right.

What does that mean at Fort Bragg right now? 

[01:06:06] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:07] General Anderson: Fort Drum. Fort Polk. Fort Hood. What, what does all that mean? Mm-hmm. You know, and, uh. Again, from a joint all domain and the fact that we are gonna have allies and the challenges of, you know, mm-hmm. There's lots of goodness of having allies, but there's a lot of challenges with allies.

And then again, I don't think we're making, I know we're not, 'cause I work with companies that, that just in the communications business alone, right. We're not, we're not, which is what this next generation command and control is all about for the army Right now, we're not. Mm-hmm. We can't talk to ourselves.

[01:06:31] Richard: Right. 

[01:06:32] General Anderson: Let alone talk to the French. 

[01:06:33] Richard: Right. So, transitioning from the battlefield to the boardroom. 

[01:06:37] General Anderson: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:38] Richard: Uh, tell me a little bit more about what you're doing in the boardroom these days. 

[01:06:41] General Anderson: I'm loving the boardroom, so, uh, no, I, it's 

[01:06:44] Richard: a different kind of battle. 

[01:06:47] General Anderson: Well, on your board. Yes. Uh, 

[01:06:49] Richard: don't get me started 

[01:06:49] General Anderson: on your board.

Yes. Uh, 

[01:06:51] Richard: it's all good. It's all good Chris. 

[01:06:55] General Anderson: It is Mr. Brady. Uh, you know, I, I, I took it as a, I went to that National Association of Corporate Directors. They do a, a two day like you do here for future board members. 

[01:07:07] Richard: Okay. 

[01:07:07] General Anderson: So you pay like a thou, I don't know, you pay like a thousand bucks or something and you go, you go for a couple days.

Uh, I listened to everything they said, but a lot of it didn't make sense to me. A lot of it didn't seem right. 

[01:07:16] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:17] General Anderson: So I just went ahead and went for it. For example, they said, you really shouldn't do more than two. And I kept saying to myself, why can't I do more than two? 

[01:07:23] Richard: Mm-hmm. '

[01:07:25] General Anderson: cause I use boards of the majority of the variety of companies I've been associated with.

The primary reason I wanted to do boards a I find it really intriguing how different companies run, how they think, how they talk, what they do, how they operate, et cetera. 

[01:07:41] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:42] General Anderson: So, very broadening for me. 

[01:07:44] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:44] General Anderson: But then more specifically, very developing for me, because I got to, when you start getting into finances and talking sales and talking pipelines and talking, you know, projections and, you know, all that stuff we do in these board meetings, it, it was a, it, it was a huge education to help me to learn, again, from a guy who had zero 

[01:08:01] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:08:01] General Anderson: Zero business sense and was worried about. Would any, uh, as you heard me say this morning, would any of that transfer? Would the military stuff trans over to transition over to the civilian stuff? 

[01:08:12] Richard: Right. 

[01:08:12] General Anderson: You know, and so I took every opportunity I could and every one of them has been a learning one and there's been some challenging ones.

You know, we did, you know, despite what, what went on with Sequoia, some other ones that that chart had that were a little, were even tougher and you know what I'm talking about, so. 

[01:08:27] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:28] General Anderson: But I took all of those as a learning thing and then, and then over time it became more, now I go on boards, not so much about me having to worry about learning anymore.

Now I get, I get asked to be on boards because of what, how I offer to try to help the company. Mm-hmm. And again, mostly from an operate, I, I'm not an acquisition guy, you know, I'm not a sales guy, I'm not a finance guy. I'm not a lot of things. But from an operational context, if you match me up with the right technology or capability, I'll find a way to help you, in most cases, improve your revenue.

[01:08:58] Richard: Right. 

[01:08:58] General Anderson: So. So that's why I do it now. And I think, uh, and, but you do have to watch, you do have to watch how much you do take on based on what your full-time job is. Obviously conflict of interest based on if something somebody's dabbling in the same stuff that you do or 

[01:09:11] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:09:11] General Anderson: Uh, you know, and I, and then I do the nonprofit world too, and that's not to learn the nonprofit world.

It's to, it's to help organizations that help people. 

[01:09:19] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:20] General Anderson: And it's so, and, and, and anything I can do from afu, a lot of that's obviously in the fundraising business. You know, we just, uh, I'm the chapter president of the N-D-I-A-D-C chapter. We just gave a check for just shy of $55,000 to the USO Southeast region last week at a luncheon at an ROTC luncheon, where we gave $35,000 away to 15.

Deserving future leaders. 

[01:09:41] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:42] General Anderson: And I went home that day and felt, so I, the week before I've been on the, I've been on the stage at a USA, I'm on the Board of Tragedy Assistance program for survivors. It takes care of all the Gold star family members, Bonnie Carroll and I, I, as the board member, Bonnie Carroll is the president went up on stage.

They got the National Partnership Award at the Association of the United States Army. So that, that just fills my heart with pride that that organization gets the recognition. Mm-hmm. And not, it's not about getting the recognition, it's about awareness. 

[01:10:05] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:05] General Anderson: Because anytime you can make an organization like that, aware of somebody who's lost someone due to suicide 

[01:10:09] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:10:10] General Anderson: And help get you through that grief and coach you through, there's no better organization than taps. Mm-hmm. None. And I, I, I bet my life on it, you know, and fast forward to coming home from that luncheon and, you know, giving out basically $85,000 that day 

[01:10:24] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:10:25] General Anderson: And go, wow. If that doesn't put a smile on your face.

Right. I mean, you know, but I was on, I was on Cloud nine. Uh, for the rest of the day till I went back to work the next day. Yeah. You know, until I walked back in the office and said, well, so, so much for that, you know, but, uh Right. But being able to do stuff like that, uh, is really meaningful to me. And I, and, and 

[01:10:44] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:10:45] General Anderson: And I obviously, and I only, I obviously only get involved with companies that I can, I can agree with the, how they, what their culture is, what their character is, what makes 'em tick, what they do, and who the people are, you know, and that's the one good thing about being outta uniform. You can pick and choose who you wanna play ball with versus have having to play ball with somebody 'cause they're in the same unit, you are the same, same staff, or same whatever.

So, so it's a, it's a lot nicer here when you can pick and choose what you want to do. 

[01:11:10] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:10] General Anderson: With who, 

[01:11:12] Richard: what are some of the lessons, um, you would recommend to startups, especially those that aren't familiar with SOPs? Um, bringing your military experience and, and how to help enable small businesses, uh, to initiate systems and to motivate.

Leaders, the CEOs to become embolden leaders to scale their organizations. 

[01:11:35] General Anderson: Yeah. It's hard. So, you know, you, you, you gotta do your homework. You gotta know who, you gotta know who you can turn to 'cause the variety of things you, based on what kind of a company and what kind of are you, if, are you a product services or both company?

Uh, are you gonna have to do classified level work? Are you gonna do government stuff? You're gonna do commercial stuff, you know, public, private se. So again, how mm-hmm. Where do you fall into all that starts to steer the ship. Mm-hmm. And then you gotta figure out how you build, how you build the ship to do it, you know, and in my case it was a one, I was an army of one to build a American subsidiary of a foreign company.

As a classified company. And of course the parent company happened to be Israeli. So I can say one thing, if you're foreign owned, you're gonna have a rough time here. Mm-hmm. And if you're an Israeli owned, you're gonna have twice as much time here because of, again, cultural attitudes. Mm-hmm. And opinions.

So what, starting a company on a path and, you know, and num and, and how you build one from hiring to, you know, when you walk, you know, when you have to create everything from an employee handbook 

[01:12:36] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:12:36] General Anderson: To a budget, to office space, you know, et cetera. And then while you're trying to do, trying to build a business 

[01:12:45] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:12:45] General Anderson: Uh, and how you organize for that, uh, from a structure perspective. 

[01:12:50] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:51] General Anderson: You know, but just, you know, but just to get into the classified, if, if you're on, if you're doing anything seriously with technol technologically with the government, you're gonna have to do it at a classified level at some point.

[01:12:59] Richard: Mm, 

[01:13:00] General Anderson: for sure. For example. So, uh, that's a two year process. 

[01:13:05] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:06] General Anderson: Give or take two year process, you know, to be a sub vendor to a prime. A tier one prime, you have to have ISO 9,001 certification. Mm-hmm. That's a 20 grand expenditure about a six month audit process to get a quality management quality assurance plan put together.

[01:13:21] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:22] General Anderson: Another example, another one is you have to now, based on the cyber maturity model certification level two requirements by Decem, by either November or December, you're gonna be required to have that cap to be, to be, to be valid, to be, to be externally audited to that, that those 110 tasks mm-hmm.

To be, to be out externally audited, which costs from, for a small business between 30 to $50,000 to get that certification. Mm-hmm. But you're gonna have to do that to, to submit contracts. 

[01:13:52] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:53] General Anderson: So the point being, as a small startup, there's so many things you have to, you have to understand and learn about what you're, you know, every insurance.

[01:14:00] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:01] General Anderson: You know, taxes. I mean, I mean, just like your personal life, it's, it's, it's, it's 10 times more complicated. 

[01:14:07] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:08] General Anderson: So, so again, knowing, knowing what that looks like, knowing what it requires to get up and running, and then what it requires to get a p and LI, I kind of put in three buckets that all have to happen.

And they really can't happen in, in, uh, together. They, they, they have to happen as, as a, as a chronological path. Mm-hmm. You have to have one before the other. 

[01:14:28] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:28] General Anderson: But building that, and then depending on what your finances are and are, you know, are you, are you being invested in by somebody? Are you being, are you getting loans from somebody?

You know what's paying the bills until you win a contract that pays the bills? 

[01:14:41] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:42] General Anderson: Uh, it's, it's a journey. 

[01:14:44] Richard: So are you slowing down or speeding up? I can't tell. Are you working more hours today than you were in the 

[01:14:49] General Anderson: previous? No, I'm not working as much hours as I did in the Pentagon. No, no, no, no. Thank, thank God.

No. I'm doing a lot. The days go fast. Uh, I do more than I should, and I'm, and I am, I'm slowly, I'm slowly cutting things off. As I told you guys this morning, and I, and I, you know, but, but, but in my life, every time I step into something, then somebody says, well, will you do this one more thing? And that, you know 

[01:15:08] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:15:09] General Anderson: You know, I walked into the NDIA in 24 as a brand new board of director on, in, on the chapter. And so I'm just fat, dumb, and happy. I knew the, I knew who the president a little bit. I knew the guy in line to take his place. Well, the guy in line to take his place takes me to lunch and says, Joe, I don't wanna do it.

My, my business is struggling. I don't, I I don't, I don't wanna move up. You know, so it's got a president, an EVP, and SVP, and a succession line. 

[01:15:31] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:31] General Anderson: You know, so he says, will you do it? And I said, man, I was just coming. I was just coming for the show, you know? Uh, and then I said, I'll do it for you. And so it's been a.

Things like that, that are volunteer work, that take an ordinate amount. You know, we play on a golf tournament. We put, we do the ROTC stuff. We do a DOD budget panel. We do a monthly board meeting. Speakers I took over, there was not one, there was not one speaker lined up for the entire year. Mm-hmm. So here it was in January and the first speaker in January was the national headquarters, but we had nobody from February to the rest of the year.

[01:16:02] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:03] General Anderson: And then we do, we do executive dinners, we do, you know, nothing was booked. Mm-hmm. Nothing was on the table. And, and, and the amount of work to clean all that up and get the chapter functioning and get people engaged again and, you know, but then they wanted me to stay another year and I said, I, I am gonna respectfully decline.

So I built my bench of, I brought on two more officers this year mm-hmm. Uh, to get a, have a bench. And I said, Nope. I, I won and done. 

[01:16:31] Richard: Yeah. Hard to say. No, 

[01:16:32] General Anderson: it is. 

[01:16:33] Richard: Yeah. 

[01:16:34] General Anderson: And it's a great organization. It does, it does a lot for all, all, all size businesses. It really does. You know, but at some point. We do need, you're looking at me like I'm really old.

We need younger people. No, no, I'm not. We need, we, we need, we need people that are younger than me doing this. 

[01:16:49] Richard: Right. 

[01:16:50] General Anderson: And get them energized and motivated. 

[01:16:52] Richard: Right. 

[01:16:52] General Anderson: That's what I'm, that's what I'm trying to do, which I just did. That's what we're doing there. Right. We're, we're going, we're going a good 20 years lower.

Right. And that, and that's, and that's what, that's what we need. 

[01:17:02] Richard: Are you having fun right now? 

[01:17:03] General Anderson: Yeah, 

[01:17:03] Richard: yeah, 

[01:17:04] General Anderson: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Most days 

[01:17:05] Richard: compared to your military 

[01:17:06] General Anderson: service. Except on the golf course. I had a ball in the military. I would, I would, I, my only regret, I, there's, I, it finally occurred to me when I should have left before I left.

[01:17:17] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:18] General Anderson: I figured that out. It took me a while to figure out why did I stay so I didn't, 'cause those four years in the Pentagon were miserable for a lot of reasons. 

[01:17:25] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:26] General Anderson: Why did I, why did I ride that out after being promised so many things that obviously weren't, weren't coming through. 

[01:17:33] Richard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[01:17:33] General Anderson: But trusting in the leadership was my mistake there. Uh, and then waiting as long as I did. 

[01:17:40] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:41] General Anderson: But I loved IE every day down that, down that road, down that place, down the road there on 95 Fort Bragg is. Mm-hmm. Uh, there, there were, there were some, there were some tragic days obviously, but, but, uh mm-hmm.

Or that little ranger company outta jail. If I could go back, if I could have kept that job for 30 years, I would've been, I would've been very, very, very happy. 

[01:18:00] Richard: So what's one recommendation and leadership that you would offer to founders looking to start a business? Why is that a good idea in your opinion, in today's economy?

[01:18:12] General Anderson: Well, that's a, depends. I'm not sure it is a good idea. So you, from a market analysis, you gotta understand what you're trying to bring. Mm-hmm. What's the competitive space look like? It may or may not be a good idea. And, and the problem with small is I've learned, even though I have a humongous parent company 

[01:18:28] Christa Schroeder: mm-hmm.

[01:18:29] General Anderson: Multi-billion, you know, 8,000 employee parent company. 

[01:18:32] Christa Schroeder: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:32] General Anderson: Uh, competing with the big boys here. 

[01:18:36] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:37] General Anderson: It's very, very, very, very di And you ra you rattled off a couple companies there earlier who are very, very capable. They're also a powerhouse politically. 

[01:18:44] Richard: Yeah. Lots of funding. 

[01:18:45] General Anderson: Yes, that's right. No, huge investors, huge political connections.

[01:18:49] Richard: Yeah. 

[01:18:49] General Anderson: You know, but great capabilities. 

[01:18:51] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:52] General Anderson: But as, as you talk about people coming into the drone space or the counter drone space, or the AI space or the robotic space though, you know, you got some, you got some huge, huge competitors. 

[01:19:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:03] General Anderson: So the question becomes how are you gonna do and, and I think one thing you have to small business, the first question, which I didn't think this way when I first started this business, who do you want to pair with and why?

Mm-hmm. Based on what you're trying to do. But in multiple cases now, had we not done that 

[01:19:22] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:19:22] General Anderson: We wouldn't have have succeeded. But now fast forward, as we're getting more mature and capable, I'm now a prime on my own and I'm beating, I actually beat a tier one recently. Phase one selection. 

[01:19:35] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:35] General Anderson: Now I'm in there with two other, uh, Lockheed Boeing, some other big boys.

Uh, but one of 'em got bumped out and we, and we succeeded. So, so as you mature over time, it doesn't mean you can't get there. 

[01:19:46] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:47] General Anderson: But it depends on what the tech, it all boils, in my opinion. It all boils down to what's the capability you're bringing. Mm-hmm. How mature is it? What are the characteristics?

Mm-hmm. What's the cost? How is it per, you know, past performance and costs and all those, all those acquisition terms all matter. 

[01:20:02] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:03] General Anderson: And, and how do you demonstrate that? But even sometimes when you do 

[01:20:05] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:20:06] General Anderson: You lose. 

[01:20:07] Richard: Mm-hmm. '

[01:20:07] General Anderson: cause the system is not necessarily flawless. 

[01:20:11] Richard: Right. 

[01:20:12] General Anderson: I, I would, I would actually state just the opposite.

It's, it's got, it's got ripples of corruption. 

[01:20:18] Richard: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's very tough. 

[01:20:20] General Anderson: Yes, it is. 

[01:20:21] Richard: Yeah. So what does the future look like for you? How long are you gonna work on boards and are you gonna turn to traveling? 

[01:20:27] General Anderson: I'm gonna stay on boards as long as boards will have me. 

[01:20:29] Richard: Okay. 

[01:20:29] General Anderson: You know, like the one, the, like, the one that, the game plan right now, for example, is when I, whenever I step down from this job is I'm, I'm gonna most likely become the chairman of the, 'cause I'm the only guy that knows this company from it's inception since 2019.

Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:41] Richard: From 

[01:20:41] General Anderson: the very first day to where we are today. 

[01:20:44] Richard: No, 

[01:20:44] General Anderson: this is, uh, Raphael, this is my, my part of it, my, this, the Raphael sustainment. 

[01:20:47] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:48] General Anderson: Global sustainment, uh, systems, global sustainment. Uh, only guy that knows it from, even, even my new boss over there doesn't, doesn't know. So, so it's, it's changed tremendously, uh, over these six years now.

So I would like to stay, I would like to A, get it to, uh, irreversible p and l 

[01:21:04] Christa Schroeder: mm-hmm. 

[01:21:05] General Anderson: Company, that's goal number one. And make sure everybody's take, everybody's in good place and mm-hmm. We're, again, I told you, I talked to you guys this morning about how I'm changing some positions, but a good, you know, a good succession plan and how we continue to structure appropriately.

Mm-hmm. Get to that level and be able to watch that survive for a year or two. Mm-hmm. And then, and then go ahead and boot up to that. But, but I'll do, I'll do boards as long as people will have me. 'cause again, I think I bring, I think I bring, I believe I bring value and I enjoy them as long as, again, as long as I, I, as long as I believe in what they do 

[01:21:33] Richard: mm-hmm.

[01:21:33] General Anderson: And who the people are to simple questions. 

[01:21:36] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:36] General Anderson: Uh, but I'll keep doing, they keep coming. I mean, uh, I, I drop, I drop one every now and then, but then another one comes in. Right. Another one comes in right behind it. 

[01:21:45] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:46] General Anderson: You know? Mm-hmm. And so I, so I just, I just quit a board two weeks ago that I was a, of a nonprofit that I was a chairman of because it was time for the CEO to step down.

And the CEO said even if the board voted him out, he wouldn't have stepped down. Mm-hmm. So I said, okay, well then if you ain't stepping down, I'm stepping down. 

[01:22:03] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:04] General Anderson: So I just dropped that two weeks ago, but just got, just got picked up. I'm now on the USO Mid-Atlantic Council as of two days ago. 

[01:22:13] Richard: Mm-hmm.

[01:22:13] General Anderson: So just stepped off one. I'm not the chairman anymore, I'm just a member. 

[01:22:17] Richard: Right. 

[01:22:18] General Anderson: But I mean, but one goes Yeah. And then one comes one's right in the shoot right behind it. 

[01:22:23] Richard: Right. 

[01:22:24] General Anderson: In the, in the nonprofit world. Mm-hmm. So, but another great organization that I believe in is the USO. Am I, am I, am I a good, uh, former good friend of mine, Mike Linton, former commander and the hundred first with me and many other times is, is now the CEO of of U-S-O-U-S-O-U-S-O National.

[01:22:39] Richard: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:39] General Anderson: As of last week, I think. Yeah. 

[01:22:43] Richard: Mm-hmm. Well, I wish you all the best in your endeavors, as you will continue your leadership with, uh, your organizations and, and the ones that you, uh, serve in nonprofit. And, uh, you're one of the most influential leaders I've ever met in my life. And, uh, and I also wanna thank you for your many decades of service and what you've done for this country.

Um, and I've just really enjoy you coming down here, spending time with me and the participants and the Elevate Conference, and. Anytime you and Beth want to come back, you let me know you have a place. I always have a place to stay. I 

[01:23:20] General Anderson: just, just gimme the key. I'm moving in. I'm gonna, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not What those, what's those people that squat?

They, they, they come in the room and they, they won't leave. 

[01:23:26] Richard: Well, that's why I have key codes. 

[01:23:28] General Anderson: Now I'm, I I I know you do. You can get in. 

[01:23:29] Richard: I can wipe 'em out. 

[01:23:30] General Anderson: Yes. I, I'm not leaving. 

[01:23:33] Richard: I could give your own key 

card. 

[01:23:34] General Anderson: I'm not leaving. No, thanks. Thanks for, thanks for hosting it again. But most importantly, again, to you, uh, thanks for the mentorship you did for those fellow CEOs these last couple days.

The fact that you care about helping people be successful and for those, whoever listen to this podcast, if you ever, I, I say it to 'em all the time. If you read the posts that Richard puts on LinkedIn about learning from his experiences and the value of that advice, he writes these very prolific pieces.

But if you read the words and as as I told him this morning, sometimes I gotta read it two or three times 'cause there's lots of stuff in there. It's a powerful message about lessons learned and how, how to learn from his mistakes. Uh, and it, and it's very good advice about how to be successful mm-hmm.

Before you make a mistake. So, uh, 

[01:24:18] Richard: that's 

[01:24:18] General Anderson: probably the 

[01:24:19] Richard: cause I've made 'em a lot of 

[01:24:20] General Anderson: mistakes. No, we all do. We all do. But, but, but many of us don't like to talk about 'em. Right. But, but the way, but the way you document that to help people. 'cause this business world, again, comparing the army to the business world is apples to oranges.

But 

[01:24:32] Richard: yeah. 

[01:24:33] General Anderson: The business world is a, is a, is not for the thin, it's not for the, it's not for the weak, it's not for the weary, it's not for the thin skinned. It's a, it's a, it's a competitive, nasty, 

[01:24:42] Richard: mm-hmm. 

[01:24:43] General Anderson: Challenging world. Yeah. And you gotta be, you gotta, so when you say, what's the advice, you better be ready to, you better be ready to buckle up because you snooze, you lose.

[01:24:52] Richard: That's right. Well, thank you very much. No, thanks again. I really appreciate it. 

[01:24:55] General Anderson: Feed me, feed me a good dinner tonight, please. 

[01:24:57] Richard: Oh, we're, we're having a great dinner tonight. Okay. Feed me a I can't wait. 

[01:25:00] General Anderson: Feed me a good dinner. 

[01:25:02] Richard: Alright sir. 

[01:25:02] General Anderson: Thank you. Thanks. Richard 

[01:25:06] Christa Schroeder: Amplified CEO is produced by Topsail Insider, edited by Jim Mendes-Pouget.

and sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at (910) 800-0111 or christa@topsailinsider.com.