Andrew Sridhar | The Warrior Poet

Amplified CEO | Andrew Sridhar

Christa: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Amplified CEO with VC and serial entrepreneur, Richard Stroupe. With today's guest, Andrew Sridhar, a former Navy Seal Commander and founder and CEO of The Warrior Poet, a platform for his keynote speaking leadership coaching, and The Warrior Poet Podcast. 

Richard: I thought your discussion this morning at Elevate was over the top. Very inspirational and, and it's the way that you tell a story is phenomenal. And one of the things we talked about in Elevate this week was storytelling and how important it is in today's time to be authentic and, and to really hit on the emotional side.

And, and the best way to do that is, is via storytelling. And I think you hit the ball outta the park this morning. It was awesome. 

Andrew: Thanks. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Well, [00:01:00] uh, you're, you're starting off with something I'm really passionate about, especially lately, which is storytelling. I have fought, 

Richard: did you, did you take any, any classes or like, have you, have you specifically been learning how to, to be a better storyteller?

Andrew: I am. I am being intentional about trying to make this something I am a master of the craft at. Mm-hmm. I had a. Mentee introduced my co, her co-founder to me on a call where I was giving them some advice about their startup. And the way she introduced me was, Andrew does this and this, and this is it.

Experience is how we know each other. And he's great at storytelling and that's why I got us on the call today. And that's great. Always great to hear compliments about yourself. Like you said, today everyone likes to hear about themselves, talk about themselves, but I took a step back after the call and asked myself, well, I'm a speaker, I'm a coach, I'm a product leader, former Navy Seal.

Am I actually really that [00:02:00] as good as she says I am. And and it's an evolving. Part of the journey for me where mm-hmm. Uh, I think I'm okay at it, but I've been intentional about doing it. So I've seen, uh, some presentations at conferences about how to do this. I've written a little bit about it too, which, as you know, when you re write something, when you teach something, you, you also are learning.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And then I recently read the book, the Science of Storytelling by Will Storr. Mm-hmm. S-T-O-R-R. And it's one of the best nonfiction books I've ever read. I learned so much in that book, the Science of Storytelling about not just storytelling, but stories in general and what resonates with us as humans.

And also, I learned a lot about myself just reading that book. And now I'm, now I'm onto another book, uh, as well. So yeah. I'm, thank you. But I'm really trying to, what, 

Richard: what are you reading now? 

Andrew: It's called the Seven Basic Plots. 

Richard: Okay. 

Andrew: And, uh, it. [00:03:00] It's, it is for the hardcore. It's for the hardcore. And so if you're, if you're really, if you really wanna get good at storytelling, start with science of storytelling, I'd, I'd highly recommend that.

Okay. Uh, it's amazing. And there's a bunch of references in there, and there's other books you can read that, that will store the author highlights. Um, this was one of them. And, uh, it's really, really long. It's, I don't know, it's a 40 hour audio book or something like that. Mm-hmm. And I'm two thirds of the way through.

Um, and it's, uh, yeah, the seven basic plots because, uh, people who study this, they, they have found that stories can be broken down into just some, some basics that repeat again and again and again throughout humanity, throughout history, cross-culturally. Um, and what, what I want to do is get better at who are my characters?

How am I highlighting them? Mm-hmm. How am I developing them in the story? What is their. Inner challenge, what's their external challenge? Mm-hmm. And how do we [00:04:00] take someone who hears something on a journey where there's these periods of contraction where we, we feel the anxiety, character, and then release mm-hmm.

Where we have some euphoria and a break and then some more contraction and release, more contraction, more release. And then you get, then, then you get to the, the ultimate climax. And, and people, people, you know, a lot of people learn this stuff in high school, in English class, whatever you were listening.

But, um, but it is, it's an art and a science and trying to get better at it. 

Richard: No, you're, it's, it's wonderful. Matter of fact, this morning, when you're talking about your experiences as a Navy seal in some of the battle scenes that you are involved in. You actually felt like you were there. It's like watching a movie.

It's like when you're, I'm listening to you, but in real time, like, I can see this happening. 

Andrew: Oh, good. 

Richard: I'm like, it's okay. So it worked. Yeah. It was really, really good. 

Andrew: Oh, good. That's good to hear. Mission accomplished. 

Richard: Yeah. There were a few people recording today. I, you knew you were recording, but mm-hmm. Did somebody else record it or?

Andrew: I, I, it [00:05:00] was, I had a couple cameras going. Those were yours, those C. Okay. Got it. And then, and then, uh, and then Bailey had, was taking parts as well, so Yeah, there was some, there were some phones out at times, which for those aspiring speakers out there, it's, it's like good confirmation that you're doing a good job when people start pulling their phones out and take pictures of you and the slides and everything else, so, 

yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. It was, it was awesome. It was phenomenal. 

Andrew: Cool. 

Richard: Well, I'm so happy that we finally have you here in Wilmington. 

Andrew: Yeah. It's great to be here. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Uh, I've heard such great things from you and, uh, tops was a. Uh, a hidden gem or at least hidden to me and, uh Right, right. And also it sounds like you guys have a, such a burgeoning entrepreneurial culture and ecosystem here that, that you and others have contributed to, so it's really impressive to see.

Richard: Yeah. The interesting thing was is, you know, we've been vacationing here since 2003 and finally bought a house in 2006, [00:06:00] seven, or, you know, and really didn't get into the business scene. I've always looking for an outlet like know. Mm-hmm. Because of course, in Northern Virginia, you're pretty much focused on gov of government contracting, that whole industry there.

Um, but, you know, got into real estate around 17 and um, you know, that took me to a journey until 2025. But in 22, you know, I learned about that company phi. 

Andrew: Mm-hmm. 

Richard: Uh, via Jim Roberts influenced an article that was written. By the Raleigh Business Journal. And it was interesting because the technology was, was like wow, right up our alley.

Mm-hmm. It's like, sounded like something you would find in Northern Virginia. Yeah. So, uh, but there is like this technical under underbelly here in Wilmington, um, that I'm trying, trying to, the 

Andrew: dark underbelly. 

Richard: Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to like elevate this, like, you know. No, you have to tap into this. Yeah. This is, this is really awesome, you know, and trying to get visibility from the DC market down here of [00:07:00] talking to some of the investors there.

Yeah. And trying to motivate some of the entrepreneurs here to kind of reach out. 'cause there's, there's some, you know, VCs and angels 

Andrew: right? 

Richard: In the Raleigh Durham area that do a lot of investing here in Wilmington. And then there's a lot of cashed out entrepreneurs that actually. Live here in Riceville Beach and Carolina Beach Yeah.

And other places, um, that are looking, you know, to do those type of angel investing opportunities. But, but Jim Roberts does a great job. 

Andrew: Seems like it. 

Richard: Yeah. You, you talked to him last night. 

Andrew: Well, you didn't get enough time to really Yeah. Interact. So I need to, I'm meaning to shoot him a note, uh, to make sure to connect.

Yeah. Just to have that, uh, relationship. See if I can be helpful. I'm sure I have tons I can learn from him, um, about not just, uh, the startup ecosystem and, and journey as well to make my practice more effective. But, uh, also I want to do more [00:08:00] in my local area, um, and especially, especially the district, uh, in, you know, creating a startup culture that is other than GovCon, you know.

Mm-hmm. Or, and other things related to the government. Like I come from a national security background. I'm passionate about the mission. Appreciate all those who, uh, do that technologically. Um, as enablers in the private sector. Uh, also, um, but for, for me, my post-military passions have been outside of the government and uh, I think we need more of that up there in Northern Virginia and 

Richard: Oh, for sure.

Andrew: Dc DC Maryland, Virginia. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. It's, it's kind of saturated in, in GovCon. Yeah. And, and it seems cyber security for some reason. 

Andrew: It's so much cyber, it's so much, and no offense to any cyber people out. You may have some cyber investments. I am bored to death by any time someone starts talking cyber for some reason.

Like, I can get technical. I, you know, I, I, I like puzzles, you know, I, I did well at math, but like, I, I just have [00:09:00] zero interest in my DNA in cyber. I don't know what it is. 

Richard: Well, it sounds repetitive at some point. Yeah. Like, you know, they all sound like the same company. Like, I think I've heard this, this song before.

Right, 

Andrew: right. Well, I think the other thing is. It's defensive. Right? I mean, don't get me wrong. There, there are, there is offensive cyber. Right. And I know there's companies in that and, and it's important, right? Given, given our adversaries to have that capability mm-hmm. And exercise it when we need to. Um, but when I hear cyber, I see, you know, just, I don't know, defending, defending the fort and, uh mm-hmm.

I'm more offensive by personality. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: Hopefully not offensive, generally. 

Richard: Right, right, exactly. 

Andrew: As a person. 

Richard: Yeah. Yeah. So what, how did you, how did you think Elevate went the, as the, as a product itself? 

Andrew: Yeah. It was, it was incredible. It was incredible. Um, as some people said today, so many great people there.

Richard: Mm. 

Andrew: Um, and [00:10:00] that, that's, that's the number one. So you, you curate a great group of participants and mm-hmm. And the folks who came back, it was great to connect with all of them, especially dinner last night, um, seeing some new faces and then, um. The, the content obviously top-notch given your experience, um, and your education and everything you've done in terms of continual learning, all the patterns you've seen investing wise, um, you know, and as I, as I said, there not to repeat, and I, I know you don't like, uh, to hear too many compliments, but, um, uh, you have a way of conveying complex topics in ways that, that anyone can access.

Mm-hmm. That, that operators who are just need in their business, they haven't heard a lot of this business school jargon before. Mm-hmm. Whether it be financing or, or something else. And, and you convey it in a way they can understand it and they're motivated to grab hold of it. Mm-hmm. Um, but also you, you humanize everything, right?

Mm-hmm. And at the end, um, you know, these are my words, not yours, but it seems like you're all all about people, and, [00:11:00] um, mm-hmm. You're, you're able to share, uh, the, the ups and downs you had and, and really be, be vulnerable about things when people can 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Relate to it on, on that human level. 

Richard: Yeah. I appreciate that.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: I actually, the program itself was influenced by my experience at HBS taking the OPM program. 

Andrew: Mm-hmm. 

Richard: You know, the, the modules and going through the content. I mean, yeah. I mean, it's content's the content. Yeah. You know, you have to modernize it and create towards today's economy, but some of the fundamentals are there.

Uh, but if you overlay that with just the, the trends and the signals that you've seen from other high vibe, you know, startups and founders and how they run their business and how did that work and what mistakes did they make, and almost like a case study, like what happened, you know, um, it's, it's good to learn by example and it's good to, to not have to repeat the same.[00:12:00] 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Heartache, you know, learn, learn by, you know, learn from others, basically. Don't ruin it to will, you know, try to, you know, take your concept and ideas, but then also, you know, bounce it off of something that's already happened so that way you don't have to repeat the same mistake. Right. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah.

And 

Andrew: obvi, yeah, obviously there's ways to, um, help us gain that experience, you know, from people like you at, at things like Elevate and, and getting mentors, which given, uh, the, the size of my ego at one time, you know, I didn't have a lot of mentors. It was just a thing where I, I felt like I didn't need it.

Richard: Mm-hmm. And, 

Andrew: um, so that's obviously good, but, uh, it's really that, that pattern matching and, and developing that right, and saving yourself, saving yourself time by. Getting that pattern matching from other people and 

Richard: Exactly. 

Andrew: As, uh, when you're, when you're a new guy Seal, you just get so much stuff at supply.

So all this gear all at once, like thousands and thousands of dollars of, of awesome gear. But the, but the, the old guys always say like, you know, the one thing you can't get at [00:13:00] supply is experience. 

Richard: Right, right. Exactly. Well, before we jump into the startup and the venture side, 'cause I really wanna learn more about Andrew today.

Andrew: Mm-hmm. 

Richard: Like, what are you working on? What, yeah. What are you passionate about and, and are you making investments? Are there certain, you know, sectors that you're working with? I wanna learn about Andrew before. Mm-hmm. Like, because I think a lot of who you are today was forged by the fire that you went through in the past.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Um, so you attended the Naval Academy. Which by the way, is, is such an awesome experience. I know, I've, I've interviewed and talked to multiple people that's gone through the Naval Academy and they're like, are you kidding me? This sucks. You know? But my son, my son was looking to, to, we did tours of both Naval Academy, air Force Academy, and, uh, I mean, he eventually decided to go ROTC at Purdue, but I was so impressed with Naval Academy.

Mm-hmm. Like, you know, he did the overnight experience and [00:14:00] the parents got to go through, you know, different seminars about all the engineering aspects and the process, and you know, how they live the culture. And it's, it's super appealing. Yeah. I know it sucks to go through it, you know, but, but my goodness, like Annapolis is beautiful right there on the water.

Yeah. I said, you know, I'm thinking like, man, I should have really applauded myself here, you know, back in the day, maybe, I don't know, but 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: But walk me through that. Yeah. Yeah. How, how was that experience for you? 

Andrew: It was good. I, I, my dad is, uh, from India, immigrant, uh, so, and then on my mom's side, my, my grandfather, um, was medically disqualified for the military around World War ii.

So, uh, there was no military experience in my family leading up to the choice of where I was gonna go to college. But I remember I was in this job fair with my dad at, at high school or not Job fair, college fair. And, [00:15:00] uh, there was a naval academy, blue and gold officer, as they call 'em some, you know, grizzled mm-hmm.

Fighter, pilot veteran who threw, flew missions in Vietnam. And he's there and, and, uh, I was kind of hooked from, from that point. And I had, um, my dad, like a lot of immigrants, very patriotic. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, a lot, watched a lot of war movies and stuff like that, uh, with him late at night. And, um. Yeah, a applied to the Naval Academy and West Point Air Force Academy, um, uh, thought, thought seriously about West Point, um, but did the overnight experience at both.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And, uh, number one, uh, west Point is a, is a dreary place. Uh, yes. Especially when, when I did the overnight. I'm sure it gets pretty at some point, but it's a dreary place with the dreary people. Dre your uniforms. Um, and, uh, it's obviously a, a great institution. I, I just, I literally just posted the other [00:16:00] day about how I, I don't really do the inner service rivalry thing.

Um, it's kind of immature to me. Um, it just doesn't resonate where, you know, we'll, we'll die for each other overseas, but, you know, we're gonna like, joke around like, we're five, you know, about what the other person did. Like, that's not, not really something I do. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I do, and I do remember that in the overnight at West Point, I remember one of the guys.

Who, one of the cadets there, I wanna say he was like a sophomore, so he wasn't that sage, uh, of a, of a person in life at that point. But I remember we're at lunch and he tells me, uh, if you want to lead machines, go to the Naval Academy. If you wanna lead men, come to West Point. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And I was like, that's a, I mean, that's a mic drop line.

That's bold right there. That's a mic drop line. Mm-hmm. Um, but, uh, obviously you lead people in the, in the Navy as well, and, and, and so, um, the Naval Academy is, it's a beautiful [00:17:00] place and, uh, naval bases are also in prime locations. Uh, army bases happen and not be, and the biggest thing was, uh, I, I wanted to be a seal.

So there's obviously special operations in the army, but. Um, I love water. Did 

Richard: you grow up in the DC metro area? 

Andrew: I didn't. I grew up in Florida. Florida. Florida, okay. On the coast, uh, Daytona Beach area, so. 

Richard: Got 

Andrew: it. Just sand and water are in my blood and I, I tell people, like I, even if I don't go to the beach very often mm-hmm.

But I need to be near water. 

Richard: Yeah. So, 

Andrew: yeah. 

Richard: Have you attended a bunch of NASCAR races down there? 

Andrew: When I was younger, uh, I went to, you know, a good handful Yeah. Of 'em. Um, I, I didn't grow up a huge NASCAR fan, um, but like I, I, I appreciate it more and more. Um, yeah. And like I feel like I'm getting in more in a Formula One now.

Richard: Oh yeah. 

Andrew: Potentially. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. The Indy Indy races are 

Andrew: really 

Richard: good too. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Exactly. 

Richard: [00:18:00] Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: When my son, uh, he was considering Embry Riddle 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: In Daytona, great place. And when we, he, he went for a summer camp. Uh, so we went down there and I took my dad to, not the Daytona 500, but it's, is it the Firecracker 400?

Yeah, 

Andrew: there's the Firecracker 400, 

the 

Richard: one in the summer, like 

Andrew: Pepsi 400 

Richard: too, I 

Andrew: think. 

Richard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, we went to the one in the summer. 

Andrew: Okay. 

Richard: It was hot. Um, and it rained like in the middle of the race, so it was, you know, delayed to the next day. Yep. So we got two days of races, but, uh, it was a great experience.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: I mean, it's, it's, if it's, uh, 3:00 PM in the summer, there's a thunderstorm in, uh, 

Richard: yeah. 

Andrew: In Florida, so, 

Richard: yeah. Yeah. So you attended Naval Academy and you wanted to be a seal mm-hmm. From the beginning. Yeah. Okay. So after graduation, you, uh, where were you deployed? Uh, after, 

Andrew: so I, I went to a ship. Okay.

After graduation, um, [00:19:00] after a little time in, in Newport, Rhode Island. Mm-hmm. Which is where you go to Surface Warfare Officer school. 

Richard: Okay. 

Andrew: And, uh, got some extra time up there doing some engineering courses to, to be equipped to be an engineering officer aboard ship. Mm-hmm. Um, which ironically was some of the best training I got in the, in the military.

I think like, just because, uh, having all that technical aptitude for things that I never thought about before in terms of mm-hmm. Yeah. Like how do you know all the intricacies of how engines work? Boilers work, generators work, right? Mm-hmm. Electricity pumps, all these real, tangible things and mechanical systems.

Mm-hmm. Um, was, was super cool and I still, you know, use that with my son today, uh, in terms of car maintenance and things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, service warfare officer school then went to, uh, San Diego. Aboard the USS Rushmore 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Which we jokingly called the Rust more and, uh, deployed to Southeast Asia.

[00:20:00] So bunch of countries there. Uh, instead of the, the Persian Gulf, 'cause I, I, well number one, going, going on a ship to the Persian Gulf. Um, even not in these times where there's a war going on, um, it's not the, not the funnest tr you know, deployment to make on a ship. Mm-hmm. And, um, also I wanted to pick a ship that was gonna deploy right away.

Mm-hmm. 'cause I knew I wanted to become a seal and the advice I'd gotten from, uh, people who had done what's called a lateral transfer mm-hmm. Um, from, from surface warfare, being on a ship to seal teams, was go to a ship that is deploying like as soon as you can. Mm-hmm. Because then you can get your, your qualification pin, your warfare pin, um, for surface warfare.

'cause you need that in order to lateral transfer. And so I like was very detail oriented. You know, results driven about, okay, how am I gonna get on this ship and get off this ship because I don't, 

Richard: right. 

Andrew: I don't wanna do this forever. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. So then, uh, was [00:21:00] through applying myself, but also a little luck probably, I was able to get lateral transfer approved and then, and, and then went to buds, um, you know, basic SEAL training.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: What year was this? 

Andrew: Uh, this, I think I went to Buds in 2002. Uh, okay. Fall of 2002, if I'm not mistaken. Um, 

Richard: so you spent a few years on the ship, it sounds 

like? 

Andrew: Uh, yeah. A little, little time stashed somewhere after graduation. Like a lot of engines are junior officers. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then, then Newport and then the ship, um, deployed and then I was on there for, yeah, some time after, but I, mm-hmm.

Yeah, I wanna say it was like a year and a half on the ship before I was finally done. 

Richard: Did some of your shipmates and people that you were working with thought think you were crazy for trying to become a seal? 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, A little bit. A little bit. Um, our executive officer, you know, used to, used to joke, uh, that I was gonna become a snake eater.

Right? Like, [00:22:00] you know, 

Richard: that's what they call, 

Andrew: that's what they used to call, call seals back in, in Vietnam. Uh, you know, uh, but yeah, it was kind of a mix of craziness, but also support. It was a great group of people. And I remember being a little nervous walking into my captain's office when I had my 

Richard: papers.

Andrew: I had my papers that I needed him to sign to recommend me. Mm-hmm. And he had to, you know, write a memo endorsing my application. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Uh, yeah, I was a little nervous, but they, yeah, they were all, were very supportive. 

Richard: And your family was also supportive? 

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, my mom, um, who has since passed, but she wasn't, she wasn't a, a fan of it necessarily.

I mean, she didn't even want me to go in the military, you know? Right. Very, very protective. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Uh, mother. But, uh, but yeah, they were, you know, overall, like I wouldn't be who I am without my family for sure. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: So you walk in the buds. 

Andrew: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I 

Richard: guess eyes wide open, ready to go, 

Andrew: eyes wide open.

And then the Discovery Channel, if, if, you know, people are [00:23:00] interested, the Discovery Channel docuseries from, 

Richard: you have seen that? 

Andrew: Yeah. Early two thousands, like way early two thousands. You can still find it on YouTube. Uh, it's such a good picture. And it's into what it's like to Yeah. To go through buds.

Yeah. And, um, it's very detailed. They show a lot of stuff. It's, they, they gave them a lot of access at the time. Mm-hmm. And it's just really well produced. Um, that came out Right. Around the time I was getting my lateral transfer package approved. Okay. And, and start, you know, this, this dream started to become real.

Richard: Mm. And 

Andrew: I'm seeing this documentary and I'm like, oh, this is gonna suck. And, and not only that, but some of my Naval Academy classmates were in the documentary. 

Richard: Wow. 

Andrew: Right. Okay. And so I'm stealing people I know and like them, you know, these like studs who just were, were crushing all the physical stuff and, you know, top of the tops and everything, um, just going through pure, pure hell.

Um, [00:24:00] but, you know, in a way it was, it was, you know, encouraging, uh 

mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Because I like to say, you know, I, I can't remember what you, what you said today, something like, proximity is destiny or something like that. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, know, knowing someone who's done something mm-hmm. And being around them.

You're like, you can be like, okay. Like, yeah, I can do that. Like, it's, it's real, 

Richard: right? 

Andrew: Um, yeah. Yeah. So, so got got into Buds, um, with, uh, class 2, 4 3. Ended up getting rolled the day before Hell week. Uh, meaning, you know, they, during a medical check, I had a bunch of wounds on my shins from something called Rock Portage.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Where you take the rubber boats that you carry on your heads everywhere, and you land them on the boulders of Coronado Beach, um, in the daytime, and then you do it at night, which I mean, I tell people all the time, that's a super dangerous evolution. There's a lot, a lot of dangerous things [00:25:00] in buds and, and especially sealed training in general and obviously combat.

But, um, but that training evolution is really dangerous because especially at night and, uh, in the winter, the, the surf gets big. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: In, um, San Diego, uh, Coronado especially. Um, so you've got these huge waves, freezing water, darkness, and then you have these boulders that, you know, if the, the boat, you know, wave takes the boat and hits it into you, you know, you're getting crushed into a boulder, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, and you can easily get your, your legs in between 'em, which is what I did. Um, luckily a boat didn't knock me over at that time, but, um, yeah, I had these wounds on my, on my shins that wouldn't heal, and so they no-go me for that hell week. And I got rolled over to the next class, uh, 2, 4 4 for, uh, a winter hell week.

Full, full benefit, as we like to say. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, and then, uh, yeah, by the time we got into into hell week, it was [00:26:00] a couple days before, uh, the two officers who were more senior than me, uh, rang the bell and quit. And I remember standing outside the chow hall, you know, there's, there's these little, little brief moments of respite.

Richard: Mm. 

Andrew: Where no one's yelling at you and you're maybe not wet, not sandy, or at least a little less, less wet. Mm-hmm. And less cold. And I'm standing outside the chow hall, you know, you're already delirious by this point. I, it was like Tuesday morning or something like that. And, um, and so, you know, you, whatever you've been up for 48 hours, maybe I'm miscounting, something like that.

And I remember one of the instructors coming to me and it was, it was something like, you know, like the guy outta the matrix, like, Mr. Shridhar, you're next. And, and, uh, yeah. So I was class leader at that point. Um, which, you know, in case, in case it's not clear, you do not want to be class leader. Mm-hmm. You do not want to be on [00:27:00] the illicit side, the lead petty officer.

Like it's a, it's a formative experience. I'm glad I did it. Mm-hmm. Because I learned so much about myself and so much about leadership. Flexing those muscles in this crucible where everything sucks all the time and you're with all these guys and everyone's stressed out, but also trying to support each other and get through to their dream.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: It was very formative, but the spotlight is on you. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: And like, you know, instructors wanna make sure, number one, that any, any officer, I mean all anyone, all the guys, but especially the officers, are not gonna flake let people down 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: When it comes time for them to lead guys in combat, right?

Mm-hmm. Make a bad call, get people killed, something like that. Um, but also I, I think it's a little bit of a, a source of pride when, you know, when they make an officer quit. Mm-hmm. Uh, especially the class leader. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: So, uh, 

Richard: it's almost as if they're incentivized. Yeah. Yeah. Like they try to make you quit.

Andrew: Oh, they're definitely incentivized. Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. The, the one story you told when you're on the beach, [00:28:00] uh, you said it was surf torture. Is that, is that what it's called? 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Where you're locked in arms and the waves are rolling on you. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Um, and then you hear the ding, ding, ding, uhhuh, and then the guy's like, anybody's next.

He's over here, Johnson's over here in a blanket eating, drinking a hot cocoa. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: It's, it's, it's like psychological torture at that point. 

Andrew: Yeah. It's, it's, it's real. Um, I think what a lot of people probably don't realize about steel training as opposed to other things, like, you know, to take any, like marine bootcamp, right.

Where, I mean, there's psychological things there. Like they've got that down to a science. Um, they definitely know the psychology of getting under people's skin and getting their head and stuff like that, but 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You know, it's much more yelling and hard. Whereas I think that the, the SEAL instructors, [00:29:00] you know, it's.

It's much more subtle. And you know, sometimes they're just completely quiet, you know, or they just say this little thing. Uh, like I re I still remember to this day, uh, instructor Stone, we, we were doing something and I, you know, I failed at something. 'cause like, they're gonna find the weakness in anybody, right?

Like, we all fail in butts over and over and over again. Um, and in, in part, you know, part of the secret is like, uh, the guys who can, who can fail, but keep going. Mm-hmm. Right? That's who you want. That's who makes it. Um, among other things. But I remember instructor stone at one point. I'm in the, the front leaning rest, right?

So, so a plank, uh, pushup position. Right. And I remember it's, it's just, I think it's just me at that point. Like, you know, my, my class had gone onto something else and I'm, you know, just getting a little, little special attention. And I remember him. [00:30:00] You know, it is, and, and by the way, it's also ironic 'cause it's like the perfect day in San Diego, right?

It's, and the weathers there are perfect all the time, but it's, you know, 70 to and completely sunny on this beautiful surf and beautiful sand and beautiful beach. But it's me, me just in the pushup position forever. And I remember he kneels down and he puts his head real close to my ear and he says, I despise you.

And for some reason, I don't know what it was, for some reason that was just in my head, like the, you know, for, for the rest of first phase. Uh, and I still remember it today. It was just like, it was so diabolical. And so, uh, they, they, they have a way of where, you know, there's some exceptions where you're just like, that guy sucks.

Like as a person, you know, for the most part you're like. You're like, no, like actually these guys are awesome. Like they, [00:31:00] they're doing a job, they're testing us. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Um, and they're not, they're not, they're not easy to hate. 'cause that would make it too easy to get through training. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. Right? 

Andrew: Mm-hmm. If they create an us them, or a, or a me, you, then I can like, oh, I'm competitive.

I'm gonna beat you. I'll show you. Right? Mm-hmm. But it's not like that. It's not like that. It's, it's, and it's harder. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Because of that. 

Richard: Interesting. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: So when you said you rolled forward, so the rolled back? Yeah. Rolled okay. Rolled back. I'm sorry. So you went through training with one class, and then you got hurt.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: They pulled you out and you healed for a period of time. Mm-hmm. And then another class was rolling through and they just inserted you into that class to kind of finish, to keep going forward. Is that, is that a pretty common occurrence going through bud s 

Andrew: Yeah. And I, I just wanna make clear, it's like.

It's not like they insert you where you stopped. Um, unless it's, unless it was, [00:32:00] unless you got rolled at hell week or unless you get rolled at the end of a phase. But if you get, if you get rolled anywhere pre hell week, um, like you gotta, you gotta start the whole thing over. 

Richard: Start all the way over. 

Andrew: Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Which, you know, it's not that many weeks, but like, every day. Yeah. Every hour it bud sucks bad. So, so you gotta start, you gotta start the whole thing over. Um, this 

Richard: is, how many months is it again? 

Andrew: Um, the whole thing is, is seven and a half months. If you count, if you count the period before you, you, uh, class up and start first phase.

There's some stuff before, um, but really like by, you know, whatever. On paper it's, it's six months. And, and that is, that is the hardest part. So theoretically, first phase is really the hardest. 

Richard: You could go four or five months and I have to start all over. No, 

Andrew: no, no. You would go back to the beginning of the phase.

Richard: Phase. 

Andrew: Yeah. The phase, 

Richard: how many phases 

Andrew: are, uh, there are three phases. Three. Okay. So, yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. 

Richard: And you said it was like six months of getting kicked in the balls. Every day, 

Andrew: every day. All day, 

Richard: [00:33:00] every day, all day. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, there's some goods too. That's a painful analogy, 

Richard: man. Yeah, 

Andrew: yeah.

There's some, there's some good moments too. Um, it is possible to have fun during this experience. Like the, the people who make it are able to somehow see the, see the light in the situations, right. It's a little bit like there's a lot of gallows humor 

Richard: right. 

Andrew: In the process. 

Richard: So at the end, those that survive Hell week, you said it was how many?

Andrew: Uh, for us, we started with two 20. My friend, uh, just, just refreshed my memory the other day. My buddy, uh, Nat, um, two 20 ish and we ended with 30 at the end of hell week. 

Richard: 30 out of two 

Andrew: 20. Yeah. And that's just, you know, that's just five weeks. You know, if we count, if we count just the official, you know?

Right. And then there's weeks before that, so you know, five to five to nine weeks starting with two 20, get to 30, and then there's a whole nother, you know, five months after that. Right. Uh, so Yeah. 

Richard: [00:34:00] Yeah. But those 30 people are galvanized through this process and they're, are they, are they ready to deploy at that point, or there's still more training there?

Oh, 

Andrew: no. Yeah. Not even close. Not even, not even close. Okay. You just, uh, we, we tad polls at that, at that point. 

Richard: Okay. 

Andrew: Um, so yeah. I is an interesting word for it. I, I think Yes. Right. You like, you know, you've done something at that point that you'd always dreamed of doing. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, and that you so few people, you know, on the planet do.

And, and of the guys who try it, you know, so few make it through. 

Right. 

Andrew: So in that sense, yeah. Like you feel pretty good. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Right. Uh, and you're, you're tight with the guys that you have gone through this experience with. Mm-hmm. Um, at the same time and, and other, other seals may, may [00:35:00] disagree on this, on or on all of it.

I don't know. But from my perspective, the, the guys who like, are there, they, they had that all along. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You know, they were already galvanized before they even got there. 

Richard: Right. Yeah. Y almost have to be Yeah. Just to survive. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: So how long did you stay in the Navy as a seal after you've gone through this training?

Andrew: Yeah. So, uh, five years. Um, 

Richard: is there a requirement after taking buds that you have to serve at some point? 

Andrew: That's a good question. I don't believe there is. Mm-hmm. I think it just depends on your enlistment if you're enlisted or your officer obligation. So I was a LA transfer, so I, I had, um, I had only a couple years left that I owed the Navy for the Naval Academy at that point, right after the ship.

Um, but yeah, chose to stay in longer 'cause I, I wanted to do what's called my, your OIC tour officer in Charge. 

Richard: Yes. 

Andrew: Tour. [00:36:00] Okay. Um, 

Richard: that's what you did in Iraq, right? 

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, that's right. How 

Richard: many deployments? 

Andrew: Well, on my second deployment, 

Richard: yeah. Yeah. How many deployments did you do total? 

Andrew: Yeah. So, uh, two SEAL deployments plus the ship deployment.

Uh, okay. So on the first deployment, uh, a SEAL deployment, we protected the Iraqi political leadership. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: So we, we protected the vice president of Iraq, though we have two, we protected one of them. And then, um, and I was his, uh, main contact for mm-hmm. Uh, protection, um, which was, was super interesting and kind of surreal as a mm-hmm.

Was I 25? You know, yeah. 27, it's something like that. Years old at the time. Mm-hmm. And then, um, and then on my second deployment, Iraq, we deployed as part of a joint task force doing missions. Mm-hmm. Uh, all, all over the country. Um, so that's when, yeah, that's when I got to be a, a ground force commander on, on a lot of missions.

Right. Yeah. 

Richard: Okay. And then after those experiences, as you detailed a few [00:37:00] this morning, did you decide, you know what, I wanna do something different with my life and enter Harvard to get your MBA? Is that about the time you did that, or? 

Andrew: Well, yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll just reframe it. Not to, not to split hairs too much, but, um, if I, if I hadn't had a family, I would've stayed in the seal teams longer.

Um, I always knew I wanted to do other things. Got lots of interest. There's, you know, there's some people in the military or even in the private sector who. If you ask 'em like, what else would you do? And they're like, I have no idea. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You know, whereas I'm like, are you crazy? There's like a zillion things that are awesome.

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: How do you not have a list of at least like a few things that sound like they'd be cool to do? Mm-hmm. Uh, so, so I knew, I knew I wanted to do some other things at some point. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: I probably would've stayed in, you know, I don't know, about 20 years, but I would've stayed in longer. Um, but um, yeah, on my second deployment in between operations, uh, I [00:38:00] was sharing a trailer with a, a guy named Mark Fell officer.

And, uh, you know, he'd, he'd crawl up in his, in his rack and, and start to go to sleep as I was doing my business school essays. Um, getting ready to getting ready to go. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Yeah. And then, yeah, was able to, was able to get into, into Harvard. Um, 

Richard: great. Yeah. Awesome. That's awesome. Congratulations. 

Andrew: Thank you.

That's great. Thank, thank you. 

Richard: And what year did you enter HBS 

Andrew: 2008. 2008. 

Richard: Okay. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Ironically enough, I was there at the same time taking OPM. 

Andrew: Oh, that's funny. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: That's, that's interesting. 

Richard: Yeah. I was there 2008, 2009, 2010, all in the month of October. 

Andrew: Oh, wow. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. We must've, we probably passed each other, uh, on the, on the sidewalks or in the buildings or something because Yeah.

Richard: Well, when, when I wasn't in the classroom, um, I was in the bars.

Yeah. I spent a lot of time in the bars Yep. And networking [00:39:00] obviously. Yeah. Uh, and you know, there was study rooms 

Andrew: Sure. 

Richard: Where, where our dorms were. And, you know, we had a lot of homework and prep work, and then obviously we were doing some other peer-to-peer mm-hmm. You know, type conversations, which was, was pretty awesome.

So, 

Andrew: yeah, I, I was not as much in the bars, uh, and, um, my, because I had. You know, my, my first child, she was what, three 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: When I got to business school with my, uh, now ex-wife and then we had our, our son like the first day 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Of, um, or something like that of class the second year. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, so anyway, because of that, yeah.

It was not, was not a, didn't do as much networking or networking mm-hmm. Um, during that process. But, uh, I was just at my, just at my business school reunion last summer and, uh, yeah, I saw 

Richard: your post and pictures about 

that. 

Andrew: Yeah. It was, it was phenomenal for, [00:40:00] so, for so many reasons. Yeah. Um, some of which are beyond the, the scope of this podcast.

But, uh, I remember my, my friend and and section mate, uh, Suke, it's like late night after this beautiful gala and we're at this kind of kind of dive bar, uh, for the after party. And, um, you know, people are just going, you know, having a great time, you know, dancing to the, the Europeans are got the techno going and mm-hmm.

You know, also, and, and suitcase is like over the music. He's like, this is what we were doing the whole time with family.

Richard: Yeah, 

Andrew: yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I know the campus has changed a lot too. Uh, I mean, I haven't been back since 2010. 

Andrew: Okay. Yeah, it's changed 

Richard: a lot. Well, actually no, I, I take that back. I was there two or three years ago 'cause my daughter attends WPI in Worcester. 

Andrew: [00:41:00] Yeah. 

Richard: And I was up there taking her back to school in January and I said, you know what, let's go over to HBS and walk around and I'll show you the classrooms I was in, you know?

Yeah. I tried to get into Mellon Hall, you know, of course the doors were locked. I was like, um, but um. But yeah, it was cool. Uh, I saw some of the new buildings, like Tata Hall, you know? 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Where I think they have a bunch of executive ed stuff there now. 

Andrew: I think so. Yeah. 

Richard: Whereas before it was, it's 

Andrew: nice. 

Richard: It was in the, you know, traditional buildings and 

Andrew: Right.

Richard: Yeah. But it was, that was cool. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, I mean, it's a, it's a beautiful place and, um, yeah, 

Richard: I love the campus. Yeah. 

Andrew: The campus is incredible. Obviously the education is, is top notch, like you were saying earlier today. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: But I'd be remiss if I didn't, you know, say how amazing, not just the professors, but all the, all the students were, my classmates are Oh yeah.

Just, 

Richard: yeah. 

Andrew: Incredible humans. Not just successful, but incredible humans. And I think, um, it's [00:42:00] easy to, uh, to stand on the sidelines and kind of critique, make fun of what, you know, whatever bring, bring other people down who might be successful or something. And so I think, you know. Harvard Business School specifically, you know, can get a bad rap.

But, uh, honestly, my, uh, my classmates are just like some, some of the best people, um, on Earth. Yeah, 

Richard: for sure. 

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, 

Richard: yeah. I took it or Strangler and over through the coop, you know, had to get a couple sweatshirts 

Andrew: for Yeah, you gotta get some swag. Yeah, 

Richard: yeah. Why not, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Andrew: My kids, I'm not a big, like, I'm not a big, you know, go team, uh, school spirit sort of guy.

Granted, if I'd gone to like a D one college that was more fun than the Naval Academy, I probably would be right. Uh, but my, yeah, my kids are always like, like, dad, like, you have no. Navy Seal sweatshirts, we can steal. You have no Harvard Business School stuff. Like we get, we need more merch. 

Richard: Yeah, [00:43:00] exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Gotta sport the merge, 

Andrew: man. Yeah, I know, I know. It's, it's not in me to like flex all the time. Um, but they want, they want to flex, so. 

Richard: Right. Well, they're proud of Papa, you know. Yeah. Yeah. They wanna, they wanna tell people. That's fair. My dad, look at my dad. 

Andrew: That's fair. 

Richard: That's awesome. 

Andrew: That's fair.

Richard: So after HBS, um, where did you go from there? What was your first job? 

Andrew: So I had done an internship at Barclays Capital. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. That's right. You worked on Wall Street for a while, right? I 

Andrew: did, yeah. Yeah. Barclays Capital had, um, well, Lehman Brothers went under. The first week that I started business school.

So 

Richard: So you graduated in 10? Yeah. 

Andrew: You graduated in 10. Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. The weirdest thing is, I remember we were in the middle of our sessions and every break we would, they had the TVs playing out in the lobby. 

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. 

Richard: And we were watching the stock market fall 8, 9, 1200 points a day. Yeah. And it's like in real time, like, what the hell's going on?

You know? Yeah, right. It's like, [00:44:00] yeah, 

Andrew: yeah, 

Richard: yeah. It was crazy. So you actually entered Wall Street almost, it sounds like Wolf of Wall Street. You, you're like Jordan Belfort. You get a job, you walk in day one, it's like Yeah. 

Andrew: A little bit. A little bit. 

Richard: Files for bankruptcy. 

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, no. It, yeah. Uh, so, so yeah, we, we started business school that, that week that Lehman went under, and it was interesting time to be in business school.

It's kind of like the best and worst time because it's the best, because, you know. You've already planned for this period in your life to be outta the market. Mm-hmm. Right. So you can worry a little less. Um, and the analysis that we got from the professors in real time of, you know, all the factors, you know, that were at play and things like that was, was super, uh, interesting and educational.

Mm-hmm. At the same time, you know, when it comes time for, for internships, then like, you know, there it was, it was precious [00:45:00] few. Um, but anyway, yeah. Went to Barclays Capital. They had acquired Lehman by that point, um, which is the other reason I brought up Lehman. Um, did an internship, took a full-time offer on the power desk.

Mm-hmm. Um, which is for people who trade powerfully. Uh, no, I'm kidding. It's, uh, electricity and natural gas. And, um, yeah, did, did some stuff with, um. Some, some complex derivatives, which was, uh, super, super interesting, super educational, so mm-hmm. Yeah. Start, started there, but then transitioned, um, to a startup after that, it was a fashion startup.

Um, not that I knew or know a lot about fashion, um, but they had, uh, a company that did flash sales. So flash sales were super big back then. Everyone knew what it meant for people who, who are living now who probably don't know what it means. It's where the merchandise changes over every, you know, 24, 48, 72 hours.

Mm-hmm. So, like, um, Groupon, you know, that's, that's how they started. [00:46:00] Right. Um, guilt group. Uh, this was, and also ran to that. Uh, and they had a lot of, they had like 40 women in this one department and they needed someone to, to go herd the cats. Mm-hmm. Uh, so all these women who graduated. From like Fashion Institute technology, and they were responsible for getting all of the product from the time a buyer wanted on the site.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: To like, okay, talk with the, the vendor, get samples, get it, uh, model booked, get the product shot on the model, get the images retouched, like all this process, you know, operation supply chain to get the stuff and then get an inventory in the warehouse and actually get it sold, get the customer service.

So anyway, that's how I started my career in tech was being, um, being their, their leader, uh, their, their, uh, you know, director to 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Help that stuff work. Um, yeah. But then transition to, to other [00:47:00] things after that. But it was a, it was a really foundational part of starting in, in the private sector.

'cause 

Richard: Yeah, 

Andrew: the Wall Street, you know, wall Street's a different beast. Right. Um, 

Richard: well, tell me, we've interviewed other veterans. And they talk about the struggles, like even mm-hmm. Even I've have had experiences with individuals who left the intelligence community. And when you roll from an organization that's government focused, whether it's military, civilian, or whatnot, over to the, to the private sector, that's a big transition.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: And sometimes they're not that successful. Um, what were some of the challenges that you faced rolling from the Navy Seals organization in a high performance, high velocity on demand always to the public sec, or sorry, the private sector, um, in that economy during that time. 

Andrew: Yeah. It's one of those things where [00:48:00] you can be in the moment and think, you know, how you're dealing with something, but not really.

No. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: So, you know. People would ask, you know, how are you adjusting? And I, what I would always think about the old movies depicting the Vietnam era, and you got these guys coming home from Nam and they got the flashbacks and they can't adjust and they're using all this military jargon and, you know, nothing works anymore.

Which, um, was definitely not the case. You know, for me it was, I I, you know, I was reading Harvard Business Review when I was in the military. 

Richard: Mm. 

Andrew: Um, yeah. One of my majors at the Naval Academy was economics. Right. Like, and, and I prided myself on not making my entire identity, you know, like military speak and stuff like that.

Right. At the same time, you know, I underestimated a, you know, how much I would miss the SEAL teams, like, uh, [00:49:00] and b you know, how how much I had was adjusting to things. So, I mean, I, I will say, just 'cause I, you know, I could talk for hours about this and I won't. For, for people of organizations, you know, who do things for veterans in terms of transition or, or companies that have a lot of veterans.

I am, I'm happy to come speak. It's something that I, I do speak on. 'cause it's a, um, I've got, I, I've done everything wrong and I don't want other veterans to repeat it, so, uh, I'll throw that out there. But, you know, mil military veterans, especially people who have done more of the high velocity, high risk stuff, it's like walking away from, from a pro sport athletes have the same issues who have played at the highest level in walking away.

And that you, you miss the comradery. Um, you can't trust people to have your back nearly as much. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: People don't [00:50:00] actually want as much ownership as you think. They do. And I, you know, I talked about ownership today at Elevate and, and all of the seals embrace that. Obviously Jocko's made that a, a pillar of, of his content, um, and for good reason.

Um, but a lot of people are threatened by ownership at some point. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, 

Richard: why is, why do you think that is?

Andrew: I hate to sound judgy or, or dismissive or, or something like that? I believe in, in growth mindset. I believe that, um, you know, no one, one of my mantras is no one better, no one worse. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And what that, what that reminds me of is, okay, any, anyone who is more successful or more famous or whatever, you know, they're, they're still human too.

They're, they're no better in a sense, right? Mm-hmm. They've, they've learned some lessons, they've done some things, um, but other people aren't worse either who are earlier in their journey or maybe have, you know, are a little [00:51:00] toxic or motivated by different things. We're all human. We all mm-hmm. Made missteps.

We've all had bad stuff happen to us, and we react in different ways. And, uh, you know, our, our, our brains are just not that different foundationally, but they take different paths based upon how we're shaped. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, and so the reason I mention that big caveat is because some people are just fundamentally motivated by, by different things.

I had a seal who, um, was in my first platoon. Awesome. Dude, I'm gonna send him a note after this. Uh, I remember at one point, I don't know what we were doing, but it was just a lull in the conversation. We were talking about, you know, people in generally, and he just goes, most people are cowards and, uh. It's, I think mo [00:52:00] both profound and, and, and also true at the end of the day, most people aren't willing to take risks.

Um, they can't see the big picture. They're not willing to take ownership of something that doesn't directly and immediately affect them and their family. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Their social status, their paycheck. So you get people who are extremely well educated and extremely well compensated with fancy titles and big companies who, um, they don't care about you.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: They don't care about the customer. They don't care about doing the right thing necessarily, unless it benefits them. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: That's not everybody by any means. Right. And I, I, you know, we should always assume positive intent. Um, but the idea of, uh, you know, comparing to, to military or maybe some other, other, you know.

Professions built on service. Like, like medicine. I'm a little biased. I come from medical [00:53:00] family. Um, the idea that you do things for other people, you know, all the time, as fast as you can, as hard as you can, no matter what. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: With risk to yourself, you know, like that's not, it's not, a lot of people are wired and, and, and even, even if, even if it's, sometimes we, sometimes we wanna make bets, right.

And they do benefit us, but some people, their risk profile is just so risk averse, right? Mm-hmm. They can't, they can't tolerate the upside of the ambiguity. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: They answer your question. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Okay. 

Richard: Absolutely. It is. It was a great, great thought piece. It kind of goes back to, you know, complacency kills growth.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: You know, we talk about that a day and, um, you know, having a strong growth mindset, you know, means that you're, you know, growth happens at the edge of discomfort, you know? Mm-hmm. It hurts. You know, whether you're in the gym, working out or training for a marathon or getting your [00:54:00] doctorate or whatever.

I mean, you're growing Yeah. You're, you're, you're hurting at some degree. 'cause it's painful. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. 

Richard: But that pain is, is kind of what is necessary to, you know, help you know that you are growing, you're learning, you're expanding. Mm-hmm. So, uh, some folks are, are just not motivated or incentivized to, to do that, or they're just not disciplined enough to, to go through the work.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Absolutely. 

Richard: Yeah. So, at one point, did you join Amazon in your journey in the private sector? 

Andrew: Um, 

Richard: because I'm cu I'm curious about that as well. Yeah. I believe that's where we met the first time. 

Andrew: It is. Yeah. Yeah, 

Richard: yeah. 

Andrew: I had gone there after a brief period and one of my, um. Entrepreneurial attempts, um, when I was on a project, private sector project, but it had [00:55:00] some, some international elements that I can't talk about here.

But, um, did that was backed down in Virginia Beach where I served with the SEAL teams, which was, was a great respite for the family. Um, and, uh, yeah, just had, had on a whim had applied to Amazon and, and exploring things. I knew they, I knew they were pretty military friendly, especially at that time relative to the other tech companies, like mm-hmm.

Amazon was way ahead of everybody else in terms of mm-hmm. Military talent, um, and recruitment and things like that. So, uh, heard back from them. They had a fulfillment center manager, senior manager position, whatever, whatever it was, senior operation, operations manager, something like that. Um, and I almost took it, I think they even made me an offer.

But then the recruiter tells me, oh, there's this other [00:56:00] possibility, this other job that someone's interested in, you, you potentially interviewing for, would you know, would you be willing to talk to the hiring manager? And I talked to the hiring manager, and this was at, this was at headquarters, so I, you know, kind of luck.

Super lucky. I, fulfillment would've been okay, but I think I, I learned so much more at headquarters, um, than, than I personally would've in the field. And I think I, I probably enjoyed it more as well, so, mm-hmm. Um, yeah, ended up, uh, going into a product management position, uh, in Seattle and moved the family out there.

And, uh, yeah, I got to do some, some cool product stuff there. And that's really the foundation of my, my tech leadership. Mm-hmm. Skillset. Mm-hmm. 

Richard: Yeah. So you were stationed in Seattle, or did you actually work for the public sector group? I believe, was it Chris Bailey was running that group at the time?

Andrew: Yeah, so, so I, I started out in, um, [00:57:00] Amazon operations on the ops tech side. Okay. And this was in Seattle, like you said. Eventually I moved out here, uh, to the east coast, um, DC area. And did, um, did the public sector stuff. Exactly. Yeah. 

Richard: Okay. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Did you work on the C two s side of the house or, 

Andrew: yeah, yeah, exactly.

Okay. Just that, that little portion of, uh, intelligence, community, marketplace. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: And you, we were working on the marketplace trying to help bring technologies into that segment, 

Andrew: correct? Correct. Yeah. I was leading the, uh, client relationship, which was fun to contribute to the mission in, in that way again.

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: And deal with those folks. And then also for, um, bringing software vendors like, uh, like yourself and other folks on, onto the platform with their, with their products. So that, 

Richard: yeah. 

Andrew: Um, 

Richard: I think as, if I remember correctly, I guess it was the work that y'all were doing with Combine Our Low to High. 

Andrew: Yeah, [00:58:00] yeah, that's right.

Richard: The technology. 

Andrew: That's right. Yeah. 

Richard: It's 

Andrew: kind 

Richard: of helping some of 

Andrew: those tools. Yeah. I forgot exactly what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. Which I hear they're still using it today. Oh, good. So, 

Andrew: oh, that's awesome. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: That's awesome. 

Richard: Yeah, I, I, I kind of keep a pulse on things just to kind of see how, how, 

Andrew: see how your babies are doing.

Richard: Yeah.

Yeah. That was a whole cool experience. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Kind of creating this thing. I, I've, I look back on it and I'm like, we were too early. 

Andrew: Mm. 

Richard: You know, the market, the environment just wasn't ready for it, you know? 'cause, so you have these brain ideas like, wait a minute, if, if it's so challenging, the barriers are too high.

On the high side, then why don't build it on the low side? Well, there's no barriers. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: You know? Right. You, you could create the simulations and go through that whole, you know, putting the PE puzzle pieces together there and then, you know, ship it up, you know? Yeah. In chunks or in whole whatever. Uh, to the high side, they're like, oh, what a novel [00:59:00] idea.

But you can also work down there too, you know? Yeah. You don't have to be working outside, you know, in a skiff all day either. 

Andrew: Right. 

Richard: Um, I don't know if we're still there yet, you know? Mm-hmm. It must, it's like a cultural shift. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. You bet. You try to change the current, you know, and it's like, no, you just need to learn how to steer with the current, but build a bigger boat, you know, kind of thing.

Yeah. So, 

Andrew: yeah, that makes sense. Um, 

Richard: do you still keep in touch with your Amazon folks? 

Andrew: Some of 'em, yeah. Some of 'em, a lot of 'em have, have moved on, uh, to other things at this point. Yeah. Do 

Richard: you remember Chris Champagne? 

Andrew: I do. 

Richard: Yeah, yeah, 

Andrew: yeah. I remember him. Yeah. Yeah. He, he basically, he and I were, you know, kind of partners.

He, I was in in the beginning. Correct. He joined me. 

Richard: Yeah. It was the same group 

Andrew: to replace someone. And then, uh, and then he took over, I guess my role after, after I left, if I remember correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. He occasionally will connect on [01:00:00] LinkedIn. 

Andrew: Oh, cool. 

Richard: Some of the content that I post. Yeah. It's kind of cool that he's still, he must read my stuff.

It's like, 

Andrew: yeah, 

Richard: we were about the LinkedIn, you know, algorithms and like, it's hard because I know there's a lot of people that read our content, but they don't engage with it. So it's like if they engage then at least, you know, you kind of know. Wow. It, it created an impact on them. Thank you for giving me the feedback, you know?

Yeah. Uh, but, but sometimes like you don't have that, and it's like, I don't know if it's good or bad. I mean, at this point. I'm just gonna put it out there. Right. I, I don't care if nobody reads it or a million people read it. It's like, yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: If it helps one person, that's okay. So, 

Andrew: yeah, I mean, I, I don't think you wanna make this whole show about social media strategies, but, um, not that I'm the expert, but, uh, you know, I tell people all the time for like, first of all, my advice to folks is like, you gotta write for yourself first.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And I think a lot of successful authors, that's, that's their approach. They write, they write something they're [01:01:00] proud of that they needed to get out there in the world. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Because then you don't burn out. And then, so the second thing I tell people is like, those are who are successful are the people who stick around.

Mm-hmm. The people who don't quit. I mean, it's kind of like buds, right? Like, you're left, you have all these filters of buds and you're just left with who you're left with. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: It's not like the instructors created people who make it through buds. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You. And so I feel like it's a little bit of the same thing.

It's just, you know, people start and then they quit. Posting on stuff. Um, it is a craft, right? We have to get better. We can't just like, not quit, but 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: Um, I think the staying in the game is the biggest thing. And, and I'm, I'm by no means, you know, a huge creator now in terms of account size across the different platforms.

But from what I've seen, taking courses and, and knowing some folks who have succeeded well is like, even if we can't see the snowball building it's building, you know, people are, are seeing us show up. They [01:02:00] know what we're producing and all the lurkers are out there. Like I, uh, I, there's a, uh, classmate of mine from from HBS and she reached out recently, um, and she's like, oh, I saw your post about this challenge running.

My friend is interested. And I'm like, I didn't even know you read my stuff. Right, right. Um, which is cool, which shame, shameless plug. If, if people are interested in, in some coaching. Um, I'm running a, a challenge, uh, you know, for myself that was put to me by my coach, um, for, for a 90 minute session of deep clarity with folks, um, especially founders, but not limited to, to them.

Um, just people who, who are at a crossroads and, you know, need to get to that next level of, of performance. So, um, waiving the fee, um, just to try and help more people. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. Well, we'll absolutely put your contact information. 

Andrew: Yeah, that'd be great. 

Richard: In the bio section of the episode. 

Andrew: Cool. 

Richard: But, but let's transition into that.

So now you're working for yourself. 

Andrew: Mm-hmm. [01:03:00] 

Richard: So you left Amazon and you kind of started your own venture. 

Andrew: Yep. 

Richard: Yeah. Talk about that experience and how that's going. 

Andrew: Yeah. I feel like venture is churching it up a little bit, but, uh, 

Richard: what would you call it? 

Andrew: I don't know what label it's a going concern. Um, so 

Richard: therapy.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, uh, it's great. So I, like I said, I, um. I had done one entrepreneurial thing, you know, little bit, little bit closer to business school. Um, and, um, there, there were some kind of fundamental issues that I don't wanna go into. Uh, there, um, not, and by the way, that's not me making excuses or anything, I, but, um, and then later on I took a shot at creating this app that was a unicorn, sort of, sort of I potential idea.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, you know, couldn't get traction. Um, I mean, unsurprisingly in social, and I only had so much runway, so I'd taken, you know, some of these entrepreneurial shots and, you know, so I, [01:04:00] the bug, you know, was mm-hmm. Always there all along. Um, and I was at Wayfair leading, uh, AI and data platforms there for, what was it?

I don't know, uh, 200 data, data scientists and a bunch of, you know, hundreds and hundreds of dev teams and stuff like that, which was, which was fun and learned a lot. But they had multiple reductions in force there. And so I got, got laid off and my whole team, or most of 'em anyway, um, a couple years ago. So I took some time off and a friend of mine, uh, who's also a coach, you know, was talking to me all the time and, and trying to figure out what to do, thought about starting a product company.

But I've always been passionate about leadership. You know, I've got my own podcast, which I look forward to having you on the show. Um, and it's about leadership, it's about team, it's about culture. Mm-hmm. And because I'm so passionate about that, and that's the, the soft skills, you know, that, that really are the secret sauce, you know, that take a good idea 

Richard: mm-hmm.

Andrew: [01:05:00] Into something that I call, um, like, you know, inevitable execution. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, it's, it's the people we work through who are gonna make our dreams happen. Right. Uh, and by getting all of those soft again in quotes, things right, we can make that execution inevitable. Uh, so I started a, a coaching and keynote speaking business.

Um, so I talk with companies in healthcare, finance and tech primarily. Um, not exclusively that. Um, but, you know, those are my bread and butter. And, and I, I really love dealing with founders, uh, especially and CEOs just 'cause uh, no one else, A few other people in the private sector know what it means, like to be the ultimate accountable party 

Richard: mm-hmm.

Andrew: To have what I call in military terms, the burden of command 

Richard: mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Resting on their shoulders. Um Right. It's a lot to deal with and it's, it's an ambiguous thing [01:06:00] where no one's telling you what to do. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: So you have to lead yourself. Stop procrastination, stop the perfectionism. Stay disciplined.

Right. As you know, as you talk about. Mm-hmm. Um, and show up every day and like, pick something, pick a priority, and, and go. And that's, uh, that's hard. It's hard. So I like sharing the, the lessons that I have from both tech and, um, and the military. Mm-hmm. And then my own, you know. 

Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Uh, startup experience as well.

Richard: How's that been going for you? Are you enjoying it? 

Andrew: I am, I am. It's interesting. Um, there were, there were times where I, where I doubted it, like any, like anyone starting something new. Um, and, uh, what I, a lot of people say are familiar with the phrase, choose your hard. There are things that suck about everything.

Mm-hmm. Right. So if to choose the thing that, where we wanna do the hard stuff in that world, [01:07:00] and, um, this is one of those where the benefits I get out of, you know, one-on-one or wider conversations with people are immense. Mm-hmm. You know, like, you know, in the one, the wider side, like today at. At your, your Elevate retreat.

Um, just being able to connect with people at scale, tell them some stories that will move them and inspire them to action. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And give them some frameworks and tools and things they can, they can apply immediately that will help help uplevel them, you know, that, um, intellectual and emotional connection is, is priceless.

I, I love it. I love the performance aspect. I love the storytelling. I like getting better at that craft. Um, and, uh, and then on the, and then on the coaching side, just, you know, reaching people one-on-one where, um, conversations one-on-one can be draining. Right. For anybody. Mm-hmm. So I'm, I'm not, I'm no exception.

Um, but, you [01:08:00] know, it's such a privilege to be able to deal with someone in such an intimate capacity. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the, the knock on coaching. Is that it's unlicensed therapy. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Which is like, not completely unfair, 

Richard: right? 

Andrew: It is. It can be unlicensed therapy, but like the, the certification organizations will say that they would, they're like, anyone listening is gonna like, scream at their headphones or the video right now.

'cause, 'cause they're like, oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. No. It's just powerful questions and it's just like, I, I I, I like to operate on the level of, hey, like, we're getting inside your mind and we're going to develop, you know, elite performance from the inside out. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And like, in order to do that, you know, clients have to, I don't force them, they do it.

They do it willingly, willingly without a lot of nudging. Like, share, like, what's going on in your head, how are you feeling? Right. Like, [01:09:00] okay, difficult conversation. Like what, what's as a, as a buddy of mine, coach says like, what's coming up for you? You know? Mm-hmm. How, where are you feeling in the body? Oh, like, you know.

I asked one client, um, the most powerful thing I asked her in our entire engagement after she, she wrote me a testimonial, what the was, when I asked her, do you deserve joy? 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And I remember walking on the beach, uh, you know, and she's taking a walk too. Sometimes we'll do, we'll do walk and talk just on the phone.

Um, and uh, I remember it was just dead silence afterwards. And, you know, as you, you know, communication tip to people, sometimes you need to let the silence do the work. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Especially in negotiation, but in this kind of case as well's dead silence for like 30 seconds. And, uh, she knew that she knew what the answer was on paper.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: But she also knew, she didn't feel it [01:10:00] that she deserved joy. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, that might seem a very non businessy thing. Might not seem like it's not related to performance, but. Our performance is wrapped up in our ability to be positive, our ability to be optimistic. Mm-hmm. Our ability to be resilient.

Right. And if we can't have a sense in this, in this case, right. In this example, if we can't have, have a say sense of self-worth, and if we can't actually play a little bit and get some joy, like what's the point? Right. We're not gonna bring our best self to the game. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: And I think it also kind of dives into finding a purpose.

Andrew: Mm-hmm. 

Richard: You know, we, we need to have a mission. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: You know, I was like, in the military, everything's a mission. Mm-hmm. Everything has a purpose and you kind of reach a point in your life and it's like, what do I do now? You know, it's like you're still young, you have a lot of energy, and you've got a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience that you wanna put to work and Yeah.

It feels kinda wasteful, like, 

Andrew: yeah. 

Richard: You know, I gotta find, I gotta find a way to get this out so I, I [01:11:00] know exactly what you're saying. Yeah. And, and trying to find that bridge. And, you know, and not to use the word therapy, but you know, sometimes when I do these long posts on LinkedIn about AI or leadership or whatever, it's, it is kind of therapeutic, you know?

'cause you're getting your thoughts out on paper. It's like, it's like journaling. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Except you're just putting your journal online. You know? It's to create, you know, uh, more content that, you know, can hopefully help your brand and help your business aspects and maybe attract some other people to wanna work with you.

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. So, 

Andrew: yeah. Yeah. I, I've, I've definitely doubled down on, as I alluded to the other night, authenticity. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And just authenticity, vulnerability. Um, 

Richard: yeah. I love your content, by the way. 

Andrew: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Thank you. 

Richard: It's awesome. 

Andrew: Um, yeah, and I, you know, I've done some [01:12:00] great, I did a great course.

Um. Of by LinkedIn creators. There's a, there's a ton of 'em. The one I did is called Archimedes. It's great. Highly recommend it. Um, but, you know, I've had to park some, some of the tips that have propelled many creators. 'cause at the end of the day, like we all need to run our own race. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And someone who's trying to be, be, build a brand and write who's right outta college, right?

Mm-hmm. Is different than someone who's farther along in their career. Someone who's military, someone who's this, someone who's that. And so we all have unique stories and I, I think you, you brought storytelling. I think it, it, I think the biggest thing is not, hey, top 10 tips to communicate better. 

Richard: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Like that post might go viral and, you know, at least metrics wise. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: But something I'm trying to remember, remind myself is Okay, like the, the people who read posted that. [01:13:00] Do they, are they invested in that person? Mm-hmm. Who created the post. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Right? Are they, do they love them or they just recognize their name?

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And I think we, what we want are like, you know, like Kevin Kelly said, we want true fans. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: People are like, oh, like, yeah, Richard. Like, I love that guy. Right. He writes the content that's helpful, but also like, he seems like a good dude, right. And someone where I wanna tell my friends about him, and if I see him somewhere, I'm gonna go up to him and be like, oh my God.

Like, I love your content. It's great. And that's like so gratifying, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like for people out there who are early on their content creation journey, and I'm not that far ahead of you, uh, folks out there, like, it will happen where eventually you'll get a DM or someone will see you or someone you don't even know.

And that's like, that's the coolest thing, 

Richard: right? 

Andrew: When someone tells you they read something and they loved it, that you wrote. Um, yeah. Who you've never. Met before, 

Richard: right? [01:14:00] I mean, Doug and Amber from Elevate, I mean, that, that's why they're here today. 

Andrew: Oh, that's awesome. 

Richard: You know, the content on LinkedIn, uh, got them to say, oh, tell me more about your Elevate program.

Oh, 

Andrew: amazing. 

Richard: Yeah, it's crazy. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. That's great. 

Richard: Yeah, it does work. 

Andrew: Yep. 

Richard: So having led teams in the military in mission critical situations, life or death, um, and then also transitioning to both the public sector and the private sector, you know, what are some of the more formidable lessons through that journey, through your experiences that's kind of helped shape your, your leadership, your decision making and your taking accountability 

Andrew: mm-hmm.

Richard: With, with some of the things that you're doing today. 

Andrew: Um, but you focused on the transition from, from public to private in terms of, or just kind of Generally? 

Richard: In general. 

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Um. [01:15:00] There. There's so many, there's so many. As you as, as you know. Um, so one thing I like to frame for people in terms of leadership is as part of this framework I call inevitable execution.

I, I call it lion. And, and it's just really basic building blocks of leadership and teams. And in my mind, in my experience is what helps the SEAL Team succeed? What helps, um, the best tech companies succeed too. And that's, uh, lion stands for love, innovate, own, and never Quit. And like those four fundamentals can be then broken down to cover all the aspects of what you need to, you know, create, create a machine that is running smoothly and getting better every day.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, but you know, just to, just to hit a couple things that are. Personal for me. [01:16:00] Um, one is that like decision making needs to be a science and really, uh, intentional in an organization and in each leader, especially the, the CEO, um, we're not, we're not there just to manage an existing system. We're there to make, assess trade-offs, and so few people do that well.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a work in progress for myself as well, but there are a lot of things we can do to improve decision making. Um, the other thing is that leaders are really good at dealing with ambiguity. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You know, if you're, if you're not good at dealing with ambiguity, it's hard to say that you're actually a leader.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um. Leaders have courage. They're willing to [01:17:00] take risks. And as we alluded to earlier, there's so many people who aren't actually willing to take risks. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I, I think that the fundamentals of what distinguishes a great leader from a good leader amount to, I, I, I talked about my, uh, my, uh, seal brother Mark, who is I was sharing that trailer with and doing my business school essays.

I, at one point, I, I said, mark, like, I got this essay here, you know, how do you define leadership? And he's like, half asleep, groggy. And he's like, rolls over vision and guts. And then he rolls back over and goes, I'm like, you know, that's something I never forgot after that because I, I, I found even in, even through his like fatigued haze.

He was spot on. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: So, so few leader, like we come up [01:18:00] with terms like transformational leader or visionary leader. To me it's just leader. Mm-hmm. You're either a great leader or you're a good leader, you're not a leader at all. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Vision is part and parcel of being a leader. You can't be a leader if you don't have a vision of where you're gonna go.

Lead means to take people somewhere. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: If you don't know what your destination is, you're not taking people anywhere. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: Right. And then you need guts. You need the guts to be able to take people there, take risk, have hard conversations. Um, and then there, then there's a couple other things. You need the ability to communicate that vision to people in a way where they want to come with you.

So influence. Um, and so yeah, that's a, it's, it's a smorgasbord of things I threw out at you here, but, um, tho those are the things that stand out in my mind for leadership. 

Richard: What are some of the mistakes that you're seeing some new founders make and how, what are you telling 'em to kind of overcome some of those challenges?[01:19:00] 

Andrew: One is prioritization. We talked about ambiguity. If you're a founder, under, what you're gonna see online in LinkedIn is, Hey, they're here. Uh, five or 10 prioritization frameworks, and that's gonna go viral and it's gonna be, Eisenhower Matrix is gonna be one. Mm-hmm. Like how people are still writing about Eisenhower Matrix.

I have no idea, but mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I, I thought that topic would be like, really well worn, but mm-hmm. People are still discovering it, so it's like more power. Like we gotta spread, spread good valuable stuff. Um, Eisenhower ma Matrix Moscow method, which is like a framework looking for a, a word to call it, I feel like.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, pardon the saltiness here, but the, then there's a bunch of others, but every prioritization framework ultimately amounts to ROI. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: That's it. That's it. That doesn't mean it's [01:20:00] easy, but it's simple. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: Right. Mm-hmm. And we, we over complexify stuff, and you can be a founder, Hey, what am I gonna do today?

What am I gonna do this week? What am I gonna do this month? 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: And you could sit down there and you could do your Eisenhower matrix, but. The, the reality of what it is to be a founder. And I'm not saying Eisenhower's job was easy either. I'm not saying it was any easier by any, by any means, right? Um, five Star General trying to win a war, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, um, but, you know, you could break things down into quadrants, but at the end of the day, you need to ha, make good decisions. Ha ha do a good ROI analysis, have some intuition to some extent, follow your passion. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And just bet on something and go with it. And like, and that, and sometimes those bets are just with our time and energy, right?

For today, 

Richard: right? 

Andrew: And so I see people get stuck in [01:21:00] loops of like, am I doing the right thing? Am I working on the right thing? So, um, and I, you know, I gotta follow my own advice too, which is sometimes you just gotta commit to something as an experiment. 

Richard: Mm. 

Andrew: I'm gonna do this tactic for this long and see if it works.

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: And I'm gonna measure it. I'm gonna see how I feel internally, and then then reassess, like we talked about today in, in, at the, in the speech plan or dive, dive, your plan. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: And just, and part of that, again, gotta take my own advice, is doing boring stuff. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: Doing boring stuff. And like writing content.

Sometimes you don't, you don't know if it's working. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: You don't know how many people, or, or, or maybe it seems like it's not working at all. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: But you just gotta, like, keep doing the reps sometimes for enough time. Um, and so that, that, that's one, the, the other. And then there's, then there's a whole nother bucket that's around A DHD, perfectionism, procrastination.

Happy to talk about more about that stuff if you [01:22:00] want. Again, I'm not a mental health professional, but, um, my clients tell me that I'm helping them a lot in this. Um, and I'm passionate about it as well. Um, and then there's a, and then the, the third part of my little list here is that school teaches us that the only thing that matters is being right.

And that's flawed for multiple reasons. 

Richard: Right? Yeah, I agree. Right. 

Andrew: The, the first reason is that's not how the world works. Mm-hmm. What matters is results not being right. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Right. Cody Sanchez, you know, I think she's a billionaire now. If not, she's gonna be, um, she says, do you wanna be right or do you wanna be rich?

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Which is like, you know, it's like a little bit of, of, of an intentional, jarring line. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: But it's true, like so many of us, we just wanna be Right. And the other thing is that people don't want to be around [01:23:00] the guy who, or gal who wants to be the smartest person in the room all the time. They just don't, it's exhausting.

Mm-hmm. It's exhausting, it's offensive, it's obnoxious. Um, and you crowd out ideas from other people. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: And then, and that's what you need as a, as a founder, you need ideas from other people and you need them to feel empowered to go execute. But the third thing, the third reason that that whole thing is flawed, the being that you have to be read all the time, is that many things don't have a right answer.

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: And so, I have seen founders time and time again, overanalyze something and try and get to the exam answer that says, oh yeah, you're right. Mm-hmm. You're safe. You can, you can go off in the world and you can do this thing 'cause you're safe, you're not gonna fail. It's the right answer. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: But most things in life don't have right answers.

Richard: Right, exactly. So, looking into the future, I mean, obviously ai mm-hmm. Is a [01:24:00] major disruptor. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: In, in almost every field it seems. And it's discussed almost on every TV show that you talk to that's about news and business. Um, what are your thoughts about emerging technology and what are you, what are you most, uh, looking forward to?

And, you know, are you researching anything, playing with new tools? What do you, what do you think? 

Andrew: I intentionally, for the last year, plus as I've been building my coaching and speaking practice, um, have not have resisted fomo. I've, I've resisted the urge to feel like I need to keep in touch with every new tool and every new, you know, clawed model that comes out and what it can do, and read the release notes and, you know, um, so I don't have my head in the sand, but I, I, I think I've done a, I am a bit of a contrarian, if that's not obvious already.

Um. Some of my friends and family will laugh that I'm a bit of a contrarian 'cause I'm, I'm probably more [01:25:00] than that, but, um, I've resisted the urge to feel like I need to be on, on top of everything I do. I use, I, I use AI in, in a lot of workflows. Um, a lot. Happy to go into detail if it, if you want, but, um,

in a way my attitude right now is okay, I need to, I need to focus on, I need to, you know, what, what was the, uh, the Voltaire book? Um, you know, 10 Year Garden. I think, I think that, I think that line was meant for another other larger life takeaways, but I'm just tending to my garden right now of I'm trying to build this thing.

I'm trying and I don't wanna be distracted. I'm extremely distractible already. Mm-hmm. I have a zillion ideas a day. Uh. I have a zillion things I'm interested in, and I'm just trying to, just trying to stay, stay in the zone. Right. Stay right. Stay in flow. 

Richard: Yeah. 

Andrew: So I don't need to be going, you know, build Android AI right now or like, you [01:26:00] know, whatever.

It doesn't matter. Yeah. Um, and so, so that's, that's the first part of my answer. Um, and I, I a little bit been there, done that. Mm-hmm. I like to say that I was, I was doing AI before it was cool, right? Mm-hmm. I was reading white papers on AI in like 2016 mm-hmm. As I was headed to Amazon Alexa Science as the first product manager there.

Um, and I loved it. I loved it. It was fascinating. Things have changed so much since then. I'm not saying I'm, I'm saying I know everything or, or I have a crystal ball, but like, um, things are changing really fast. I, and like we tend to overhype technology early. Yeah. And under represent how much things are gonna change on the long term.

Richard: Oh, yeah. I agree. Right. Yeah. 

Andrew: So, um, I think people need to chill out a little bit. [01:27:00] 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Um, yeah. You know, use it, use it where, where it makes sense. I'm excited about things in healthcare, um, in terms of actually being able to solve things that we have never solved and really extend human life, but also quality of life 

Richard: mm-hmm.

Andrew: In so many ways. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. It's 

Andrew: just, it's like kind of unfathomable. Right, right. Um, so, so I'm super excited about that as, as just one example. But, you know, I've always been, I, I don't want to be, I'm not necessarily a doomsday sort of person, but mm-hmm. Like, I have always believed, I mean, it's easy to say that now, like everyone's saying that now, but, but I've always just believed in.

It's just, it is, it is completely revolutionary, right? Mm-hmm. And like, that's, that's where we're headed. And in a way, we can't Ima in a way we can imagine, but in a way it's like kind of, it's like a, the biggest black swan ever. 

Richard: Mm-hmm. 

Andrew: Yeah. Like we don't know what's [01:28:00] gonna happen. Exactly. 

Richard: Right. 

Andrew: We can predict, but 

Richard: mm-hmm.

Andrew: We'll probably be way off. 

Richard: Well, I, I totally agree with you on that. Well, I definitely look forward to continuing watching you on your journey. And, and like I said, I love your content. I can't wait to see more coming out in the near future. Um, and I want to thank you again for being a part of cohort three, for Elevate and for being authentic and being vulnerable and sharing some of your stories of your past.

Um, and, uh, and thank you for coming here today. 

Andrew: Yeah. 

Richard: And just sharing more of your thoughts, uh, with this audience. I've, I've really enjoyed spending a couple days with you and, and I do owe you, uh, a podcast visit on your set in the near future. So, 

Andrew: yeah. I, I can't, I can't wait. Uh, this has been such a pleasure to, for you to, to welcome me, not just on the podcast, but into, into your world, um, yeah.

And stuff and, and, [01:29:00] uh, have really appreciated it. Yeah. 

Richard: Awesome. 

Andrew: This was awesome. 

Richard: Thanks again. 

Andrew: Thank you. 

Richard: You bet.

Christa: Amplified CEO is produced by Topsail Insider, edited by Coastal Carolina Network, and sponsored by Cape Fear Ventures. For more information about Amplified CEO, Richard Stroupe, or Cape Fear Ventures, please contact Christa at 910-800-0111, or christa@topsailinsider.com.